Confidence Is a Metric: The Enablement Survey That Ties Training to Revenue

0:00 And when you come at it from that framework,

0:02 and you really are co-building with the managers,

0:04 that's where it's just so fun to enable.

0:06 My guest today is Chad Trebucco, who

0:09 leads enablement, business partner strategy,

0:11 and activation at UMI.

0:12 My starting hypothesis was that a more confident seller

0:16 would be a more effective seller.

0:18 And confidence also gave me an enablement,

0:20 sort of this leading signal, this leading measure,

0:24 that I could influence and control.

0:26 Nothing gave me more influence.

0:28 Nothing helped me advocate for my team

0:30 more than having absolute control, conviction,

0:33 and confidence in the data.

0:37 It was 60% of the calls they were talking about AI.

0:41 But look at this change.

0:42 We've changed this behavior significantly.

0:45 Let's take a look at our ACV.

0:47 And lo and behold, we saw our ACV double over that period.

0:50 I've never done a presentation or walked into a big meeting

0:55 without doing a dry run.

0:56 I think the ones who will succeed are the ones who

0:58 are leaning into that practice.

1:00 And we're already seeing it here.

1:09 Chad, you've been running a quarterly survey that

1:11 asks reps how confident they feel competitively on product,

1:16 on moving up market.

1:17 Take me back to the first time you ran that survey.

1:21 And what did the answers tell you

1:23 that you didn't already know?

1:26 Yeah, it's a great question.

1:28 So at Glint, this is where we started to run this.

1:31 My starting hypothesis was that a more confident seller would

1:35 be a more effective seller.

1:36 And confidence also gave me an enablement,

1:39 sort of this leading signal, this leading measure,

1:43 that I could influence and control,

1:45 and then connect it to the quarter's revenue results.

1:49 So asking about it regularly over time,

1:52 through this mechanism that I called the voice of sales,

1:57 really gave me a direct view into where sellers needed help.

2:01 And the clearest example of a survey changing

2:04 sort of a decision that came later, sort of an aha for me,

2:08 was when I was at Guru.

2:10 Initially, leadership was prepared to bring in

2:13 a new sales methodology.

2:15 And that was in the discussions before I even started there.

2:19 And when I landed there, I ran this survey,

2:23 brought that idea over to Guru, ran this survey

2:25 within my first couple of weeks.

2:28 And it showed a really immediate gap with the field

2:30 in speaking to one of the core personas, this HR persona,

2:35 which was really core to going larger in accounts

2:38 and selling the full stack across the full company.

2:43 And so that was a critical point for the field.

2:45 And it gave me this lens to come back to leadership and say,

2:51 hey, sales methodology is super important.

2:53 But it won't be as effective if we don't do this persona work

2:59 first.

3:01 And so we did that persona training first.

3:03 I scored the reps on how they played both the seller,

3:07 sort of did this role play.

3:09 But also, I scored them on how they played the buyer

3:11 so that they really engendered sort of the motivations

3:14 of the buyer and started to think like that persona.

3:18 So this really changed our priorities in sort of the cadence

3:21 that we were rolling out.

3:22 And it built trust with the sellers

3:25 so they could see that I was in there--

3:28 I was looking after their impact.

3:33 And I can impact that story a little bit more.

3:35 But that's really where I got started

3:37 in this idea of confidence.

3:41 I think it's unbelievably unique.

3:43 I haven't met an enablement leader

3:45 that has been running it that way.

3:47 But it makes a ton of sense.

3:50 It feels like it unlocks a whole realm of information

3:53 that you wouldn't otherwise have access to

3:55 and really gives you the way to lean in.

3:58 How often are you running the survey?

4:00 Do you kind of cohort it?

4:02 Do you have different surveys for different go-to-market teams?

4:04 Operationally, what does it look like and how do you run it?

4:08 Yeah, operationally, I think I haven't

4:11 run it for different groups.

4:14 It was sort of more general.

4:16 And I think that was by design to really capture--

4:21 I could clean it up on the back end

4:22 and see the titles and different things

4:24 and sort of condense it there.

4:26 When I was running it, the teams were smaller.

4:28 So I really didn't need to specify it.

4:31 But the mechanism was looking back

4:34 at the last quarter of things we rolled out,

4:35 measuring the confidence on the things that we did,

4:38 and then seeing if there's a delta going forward.

4:40 And I think data is so important when you have the trend.

4:43 And so running this quarter in, quarter out,

4:45 beginning of the quarter, minds are fresh,

4:48 sort of take a chance to look back,

4:50 I think was a really critical way to show progress over time.

4:55 And I think that helped me understand,

4:58 are we moving the needle in these certain areas?

5:01 What do I need to surface to leadership?

5:03 We can get a little bit more into the win-loss program

5:07 that we ran.

5:08 But coupling that with this voice of sales

5:10 really gave us sort of the business view, the company

5:13 view, that win-loss level.

5:15 We married that with sort of the voice of the field.

5:17 And that can help us triangulate a lot in terms of the way

5:21 that we bring enablement programs to market

5:23 and really focus on sort of a data-driven approach.

5:28 Are you measuring also at the management level of the team?

5:32 Or is this more of like a field-level survey

5:34 that you're running?

5:36 Yeah, I would also run a confidence survey

5:38 with the managers.

5:39 And that wasn't like, are you confident being a manager?

5:42 I think it was, are you confident in your team's ability

5:46 to do these different things?

5:48 And that gave me just like another way

5:50 to triangulate how the team is approaching things.

5:54 And when those things disagreed,

5:56 I think it was really interesting to probe into that

5:59 and see, hey, the rep's confidence is really high.

6:02 Some ways you want a really confident rep.

6:05 The manager's confidence in that rep or that team

6:08 was a bit lower.

6:09 And so that gave me an opportunity

6:11 to kind of do what we're telling all of our sellers to do.

6:13 And that's do a little more discovery,

6:15 probe a little bit deeper, understand the pain,

6:18 and then tie that to the value

6:21 that we can drive on the backend

6:22 if we really understand what the manager is trying to get at.

6:25 Why do they see that as a lower score

6:28 or lower confidence in that team?

6:31 And then you build a program around that with them.

6:34 And that co-build is just so critical for enablement.

6:37 It really drives things forward.

6:38 And then you can show on the backend,

6:40 hey, we proved this point.

6:41 Here was your pain.

6:42 Here's how we solved it.

6:43 What can we do next?

6:47 - Are there any common insights?

6:51 I'm sure this will depend on the company

6:53 and the market they're competing in

6:55 and all different types of things.

6:57 But since you've been running this for a while,

7:01 are there a few common things that tend to come up

7:04 where people don't feel as confident

7:06 as maybe people would assume that they'd be confident in?

7:10 Is it product knowledge?

7:12 Is it competitive information?

7:14 Is it market knowledge?

7:16 Anything that tends to come up quite often.

7:18 - I really haven't found a common trend

7:20 across companies from the survey data.

7:23 I think it depends on the situation.

7:26 Rep's heads are down.

7:27 They've got a big quarter generally coming up.

7:30 I do find surprises though.

7:32 And I think there are some surprises

7:34 and I think this is more of a gut feel

7:36 and sort of a thematic theme that I've seen

7:41 across companies and that's the fundamentals.

7:43 I think reps realize some of the fundamentals get lost

7:48 in all of the things that we're doing,

7:51 all of the things that we're pushing.

7:53 I think enablement can get lost in,

7:55 well, we trained on that last quarter

7:57 so it should be sort of like standard

7:59 for folks this quarter.

8:01 And that's not always the case.

8:02 I think folks need time to catch up.

8:04 I think folks need time to absorb.

8:08 I have the sales leader that always says it's seven times seven.

8:11 You got to hit them seven ways

8:12 with seven different messages

8:15 for things to really sink in.

8:16 And I think that realization is really true.

8:20 And sometimes that extends to the fundamentals

8:23 of like, are you doing an upfront contract?

8:25 Are you creating five minutes to close the call

8:28 and make sure that you've got your next steps documented

8:31 with the prospect and coming back to those things

8:34 and reminding the team that those fundamentals are important

8:38 and they're reminding them why

8:40 in all of the things that they're doing.

8:42 So it's not necessarily a realization from the data.

8:48 It's more of a gut feel

8:49 and a trend that I've seen across companies.

8:51 - Yeah, and I'm assuming,

8:53 I think some people may think,

8:55 okay, you're all at the enablement program,

8:57 you did the training and now you're all done, great job.

9:00 Well, it's just like anything else,

9:02 maybe like diet and exercise.

9:03 People need to be reminded

9:06 more than they need to be told or taught.

9:09 And also if you're working in a scaling company,

9:11 you're continually adding in new reps

9:13 and cycling and cycling people out, cycling people in.

9:16 And some of the things,

9:18 even though it may sound like you're a broken record

9:20 at a certain point,

9:21 but like you need to keep reminding them

9:23 of those fundamentals.

9:24 So that way when they're in the field,

9:27 it's not that they've just been taught about it,

9:29 but it becomes the muscle memory they use

9:31 in the sales process.

9:33 Are there certain cadences you like to follow

9:37 for training and reminding?

9:40 How do you, 'cause this is a very, very tough job

9:43 to keep the ball moving and all this stuff.

9:46 Is there any schedule that you like to follow

9:49 to keep all this top of mind with the reps?

9:54 - Yeah, I think one thing I've learned lately,

9:57 and I think we can kind of probe into this a bit more

9:59 when it comes to the managers.

10:01 But I think it's really important

10:03 to think about the hierarchy

10:05 in the way that you communicate.

10:07 And I think generally we're all moving so quickly.

10:12 We're building agents, we're rolling things out,

10:15 we're pushing things out,

10:16 enablements sort of on the bleeding edge

10:18 of everything new and moving forward.

10:21 Sometimes we forget that hierarchy of communication

10:24 is really important.

10:25 So I have a standing meeting with all my leaders

10:29 across all of those different roles.

10:31 So the heads of, the VPs of,

10:35 the global heads of every two weeks

10:38 so that I can keep them abreast

10:39 of the things that are happening for their org.

10:42 And then when a new thing is happening,

10:44 we're sort of like getting in front of it,

10:46 giving them comms to share with their managers,

10:48 and then we're proactively sharing

10:50 with their managers as well before those things happen

10:53 so that there's no surprises.

10:55 I think one of the things

10:55 that enablement does have control over

10:58 is no surprises to the manager group.

11:01 And so I'm really pushing that with my team

11:03 and they're working closely with their managers

11:06 because managers have one of the tougher jobs

11:08 in addition to reps.

11:10 And when you create that mantra of no surprises,

11:14 they really do feel like they're in it with you.

11:16 And then you communicate to the field

11:19 that these things are happening,

11:20 this training is happening.

11:22 I also think it's really important to have rituals.

11:25 And when I say rituals,

11:27 I mean a constant team meeting

11:30 that happens every quarter or every month

11:34 within sort of the larger business.

11:37 So we have an enterprise town hall that happens every month.

11:41 That's an important ritual for enablement

11:43 to know about and lean into.

11:45 Then I think there's important rituals

11:46 from a learning perspective.

11:47 And we have this really cool model here at Boomi

11:50 where we do something quarterly.

11:51 There's quarterly training that includes

11:54 the most important things, right?

11:55 Competitive training, product training, pricing training.

11:59 And that is a ritual that reps know

12:01 is gonna happen every quarter, quarter in, quarter out.

12:04 And then there's a sort of a cadence

12:06 and a calendar below that

12:09 that enablement can plug into.

12:11 We spotlight what's great

12:13 and we have these vehicles or these rituals

12:16 at sort of every segment, every region

12:20 that we can plug into that the reps know,

12:22 the managers know what happens during that ritual,

12:26 what to expect.

12:27 And again, that comes back

12:28 to that sort of no surprises mantra.

12:31 I think that just keeps them focused

12:33 on what they need to do

12:34 when these things pop up on the calendar.

12:36 They know why they're being asked to show up.

12:38 They know what they're gonna get.

12:39 They know what they're gonna take away.

12:41 And then there's rituals beyond that, right?

12:43 There's communication rituals in Slack or email.

12:46 And if you keep those consistent,

12:48 you keep a newsletter going of

12:50 these are the things we taught you.

12:51 These are the resources you have.

12:54 Those rituals really become part of the behavior.

12:57 And I think, you know, it does a couple of things.

12:59 For enablement gives you a lot of places

13:01 to sort of hit that seven times, seven ways.

13:05 But it also for the reps, you know,

13:08 takes the mind's share out of sort of what's happening.

13:11 What is enablement doing?

13:12 What is enablement asking me?

13:14 They sort of know when and where that will happen.

13:17 So they can keep more mindshare on what they do day in,

13:20 day out.

13:21 And that's working with the customers and prospects.

13:24 - I think those sacred rituals are super important

13:28 and giving people, you know, an expectation

13:31 of when they'll be given information,

13:33 which sounds like a really important work stream.

13:36 Are there ad hoc work streams

13:38 that tend to come up in enablement too?

13:40 Maybe more of like a signal based,

13:42 hey, this thing happens.

13:43 So now enablement has to come in and intervene or help.

13:47 Are there any things like that that come up

13:49 and what's giving you the ability to see opportunities

13:52 to lean in and help with the team?

13:54 - Yeah, I mean, it comes back to the data.

13:56 And I think those ad hoc moments are really critical, right?

13:59 A leader will sort of say in those bi-weeklys that I have,

14:02 hey, this is something I'm seeing.

14:04 Enablement's bringing something forward.

14:06 Hey, we were analyzing GONG.

14:07 We were looking at Snowflake.

14:09 We triangulated this problem.

14:11 You know, is this a problem you're seeing?

14:13 How do we address it?

14:14 And I think that's sort of where the fun

14:17 and the art of enablement can come through of like,

14:21 okay, we have all these things on the plate,

14:23 but we need to do this other thing.

14:24 And I think that's where those rituals

14:26 actually become really important.

14:28 'Cause you can modulate those rituals.

14:29 It doesn't always have to be,

14:31 this product training is always on X.

14:33 Or this window of time is always on product

14:36 or always on competitive.

14:38 And you can re-leverage those windows.

14:41 And I think leaders actually really appreciate

14:44 when you can re-leverage those windows for those ad hoc things

14:48 and plug in sort of just-in-time learning.

14:52 And I always try to tell my team like,

14:54 let's umbrella this, you know, around a common theme.

14:59 So if we're doing product training

15:02 and there's sort of like this ritual of,

15:03 hey, we're gonna level you up around this product training,

15:07 but we get one of those ad hoc requests of like,

15:10 hey, this is a thing we need to lean into.

15:13 You can sort of say, hey, well, this is part of us,

15:17 you know, increasing ACV this quarter

15:19 if you focus on this product training.

15:21 And so you just sort of umbrella these things

15:23 for the reps, the managers as to the why

15:27 and how it fits into the larger context.

15:29 So those ad hoc programs can feel like

15:32 they were part of something larger

15:34 and there's a what's in it for them.

15:37 I think that's always a critical way to connect the dots.

15:41 And then I think the other piece around this ad hoc stuff

15:45 is how are you measuring it?

15:47 How are you sort of showing, you know,

15:50 we're doing this training.

15:51 Here's sort of the way that we're gonna be watching it,

15:54 Gong or other conversational tools.

15:57 And then here's the outcome that we're hoping to drive.

15:59 I talked a little bit about ACV.

16:01 We're hoping to increase ACV by selling more products

16:04 or, you know, more than one product for this initiative

16:10 or this ad hoc request.

16:13 So we're gonna be looking at multi-skew

16:15 and we're gonna see, does that ACV

16:16 or does the percentage of multi-skew deals

16:20 go up over time post-training?

16:24 I think it's really important to measure that

16:26 week over week and then you bring it back to those rituals

16:28 of the syncs with the leaders and the managers.

16:31 So you can show like, hey, we really are in this with you.

16:34 We're looking at it in the same ways

16:35 that you're looking at it.

16:37 And that North Star number that we're all trying to change,

16:41 because of that request,

16:42 something that we're all looking at and working towards.

16:47 - One thing that I'm hearing that is really unique.

16:51 I haven't heard a lot of enablement leaders

16:54 spend the amount of focus that you have spent

16:57 on the managers and management layer of the team.

17:02 I think there's a lot of attention that goes on people

17:05 in the field and the reps and individual contributors,

17:08 giving them trained up, monitoring how they're doing.

17:10 But I'm hearing a lot of attention to that management layer.

17:14 Do you have a philosophy around where and when

17:17 and how to invest your time?

17:20 - Yeah, I think what I've learned

17:22 and I was fortunate early in my career,

17:25 particularly at Glint, we had some very seasoned managers

17:29 that didn't need a whole lot of enablement per se.

17:33 They needed visibility.

17:34 And I think that's sort of where the trends were going.

17:37 I think that's why that win-loss program

17:38 was really critical 'cause it gave them

17:41 sort of that company lens and then they were able to see

17:44 how their team was feeling from that voice of sales

17:47 and sort of understand where their team needed support.

17:51 And then they were seasoned enough to be able to lean in

17:54 in those different ways and work with me to do that.

17:57 But I think as I'm realizing, as we move

18:00 sort of into this AI world and teams are scaling

18:04 really, really quickly, I think it becomes

18:08 even more important with these newer managers

18:11 to really enable them on the behaviors that we wanna see.

18:16 And it's creating sort of this foundational layer

18:19 of expectation of how you run your business.

18:23 I think when you have a cohort of newer managers

18:28 that maybe were top AEs that have moved into that role

18:32 or you have a much bigger org, frankly,

18:35 I think that's to your point,

18:37 when do you start to look at managers

18:39 as an area to enable to?

18:44 I think it's that because I have this CRO talk about

18:47 just like a very simple framework.

18:51 We have a written and we have a taught sales process.

18:56 And when the team knows that,

18:58 they'll be much more predictable

19:00 in terms of the outcome that they're driving.

19:03 And I keep coming back to that.

19:04 It's something I think about a lot.

19:06 And when you have a big team,

19:08 you have a lot of new managers,

19:10 it can be very easy to get away from sort of that written

19:13 and taught sales process.

19:15 And so I think that's something to look out for a signal

19:19 for any enablement person or even ops person out there

19:23 is when you see that happening,

19:27 it's really important to come back to the basics

19:29 because if folks are interpreting different things

19:33 about a sales process, you're gonna get different results.

19:36 And I think that predictability is so important,

19:39 particularly in the speed that we're all moving.

19:43 So that would be sort of the way

19:45 that I think about enabling the managers.

19:48 And we can talk a bit more about what does that look like?

19:50 How are we doing that?

19:51 Why is that an aha for me?

19:54 - Yeah, well, and I think a lot of it too

19:56 comes down to reinforcement.

19:58 It's one thing to teach the process,

20:00 put it on paper, like you mentioned,

20:02 and teaching is more than a single session.

20:06 I have young kids, I could tell them to do something,

20:08 but usually it requires a little bit of reinforcement,

20:11 not saying sales reps are children,

20:12 but there's some commonalities between the two.

20:17 And I think if you do a really, really good job

20:19 of enabling the managers,

20:22 then they can help with the day-to-day reinforcement

20:24 when they're coaching their reps,

20:26 when they're digging deep into a deal,

20:28 making sure that, hey, yeah, we're following the process

20:30 that we all agreed on, gives us the best chance of winning,

20:35 then that investment can compound throughout the whole team,

20:38 especially as you're scaling.

20:40 - Your point is so well taken that, hey,

20:42 we've agreed upon this because this is the best way

20:46 for us to accelerate deals, close deals.

20:50 And when you come at it from that framework

20:52 and you really are co-building with the managers,

20:54 that's where it's just so fun to enable

20:57 because it becomes less enablement, less enforcement,

21:01 and really it becomes empowerment.

21:02 And I think that's a framing

21:04 that I really like to anchor into is like,

21:07 how can we empower these managers?

21:09 How can we empower these reps to carry

21:12 what great looks like forward?

21:14 I mean, I think that's the game that we're in.

21:17 - Specifically, what cadence do you set up

21:19 with the managers and how do you like to enable them?

21:22 Are you helping them come up with the methodologies?

21:25 Are you getting things on paper for them?

21:27 Are you producing materials for their team?

21:29 Are you surfacing the insights through transcripts

21:33 or the confidence survey?

21:36 What are all the ways where like tactically,

21:39 okay, this is how I prepare a manager

21:41 to help manage their teams

21:43 from an enablement perspective?

21:45 - Yeah, it's all of those, right?

21:48 It's the written process, right?

21:51 If you can't measure it, you can't document it,

21:54 and it's not gonna be as important,

21:55 and it's not gonna be consistent.

21:56 And so we've done a lot of work

21:59 to take the signals that we see in our data

22:02 that move deals from one stage to the next, the quickest.

22:06 What are those, we call them the green lights.

22:09 What are those green lights that happen at every stage?

22:12 What are the things that have to happen?

22:13 What are the behaviors, the outcomes, the activity?

22:18 'Cause it isn't always the sort of,

22:20 oh, well, this stage takes 20 days,

22:22 this stage takes 40 days, let's measure that.

22:25 It's really the behaviors that underlie that,

22:27 the things that are happening that drive that

22:29 that are so important.

22:31 So we've sort of codified those green lights

22:34 into this framework

22:35 that we're then training all of the managers on,

22:38 it's documented, and it's built into their rhythm.

22:40 It's built into their calendar, their cadence

22:43 of what their week, what their day looks like.

22:47 And I think we've had a lot of success sort of spelling out,

22:52 these are the things that you should be doing

22:53 and looking at in a week in, week out,

22:57 in almost a calendar format.

22:58 So we're sort of building in that framework

23:01 of this is what our process looks like,

23:03 and this is what your process should look like as a manager.

23:06 And then we're creating these sort of rituals.

23:09 I have a person that I work closely with

23:12 who's running this, used to be on my team,

23:14 has been elevated into this role

23:16 to focus exclusively on managers.

23:18 And he calls these things coach camps.

23:21 And it's a really interesting ritual

23:23 to bring the managers together

23:25 to talk through that ritual, that framework.

23:30 What is it looking like in practice?

23:31 And there's some surveys that go on prior,

23:34 there's some analysis that go on prior

23:35 so that the topics are really relevant

23:38 and they have an opportunity to talk through as a team.

23:41 And I think that peer-to-peer learning can be so critical

23:45 both at the rep level, but also at the manager level.

23:48 And this gives them sort of that forum

23:52 to learn from one another, some of the newer managers,

23:56 to learn from those who are more seasoned.

23:58 Some of the newer ones might be more apt

23:59 to understand the latest tooling.

24:01 And so they're teaching those who've been there longer

24:05 and have more of a standard way that they go about things.

24:09 And so it becomes this wonderful cross-pollination.

24:13 So there's sort of the documentation,

24:16 there's the peer-to-peer learning

24:18 and sort of those focused time.

24:20 And then sort of the third thing that I think

24:22 is really critical, especially now

24:24 with all of the tooling that we have from an AI perspective

24:28 is we're building agents, we're building alerts

24:32 into that daily flow, into Slack,

24:36 into specific areas within Salesforce

24:40 that are alerting the managers

24:41 on those opportunities to coach.

24:43 And I think we haven't talked too much about coaching,

24:45 but that's what managers can be good at.

24:49 Most of them have sat and seen.

24:51 Most of them have seen a lot more opportunities

24:55 than their reports.

24:57 And I think creating some signal in all of the noise

25:00 of these are the two things you can do.

25:03 This is the one priority that you want to coach to

25:07 for this particular rep based on these things

25:10 that have happened, based on the framework

25:12 that we've established, based on the process

25:15 that we've established, based on this call or that call,

25:19 and kind of pulling all those things together, right?

25:22 The framework, the peer-to-peer learning

25:26 and sort of like that condensed time

25:27 to sort of learn and explore.

25:29 And then this kind of always on coach,

25:32 that's something we're leaning into a lot more

25:34 sort of exploring now.

25:36 And I think there's a lot of opportunity with AI

25:39 to make that happen in ways

25:42 that we haven't been able to do before.

25:46 - I love that.

25:47 I think the one that sticks out to me the most

25:49 is the coach camps and getting managers, coaching themselves.

25:53 Again, we think a lot about how enablement is for the reps,

25:57 for the people on the front lines.

25:59 And I think the managers get left out of this quite often.

26:02 And by the way, often you're getting managers

26:04 that were just a rep a couple of days ago,

26:06 and now they're put in this position

26:07 to go lead all these teams.

26:09 And it's new for them too.

26:11 There's a new job that needs to be done,

26:13 ways in which you can manage best practices they can follow.

26:16 And then all of the insights

26:17 that you can help give them ideas like,

26:18 hey, did you know you could coach your rep

26:21 over here on this thing that should help them

26:23 and nudging them in the right direction?

26:24 I mean, it's unbelievably helpful.

26:28 One thing I think a lot of enablement teams struggle with,

26:34 and I'd love your insights and feedback on this,

26:37 is how to articulate the value of enablement.

26:42 And oftentimes when you're wanting to add headcount,

26:47 expand the team,

26:49 it's under a lot of scrutiny from the CFO, the CEO.

26:54 I think sometimes the CRO intuitively understands

26:56 where the investment is,

26:57 but how are you articulating that value

27:01 to advocate for more investment and enablement

27:04 as the company grows and scales?

27:06 - Yep.

27:07 I mean, it's the best when a CRO intuitively gets that.

27:10 I think those are the next areas to work.

27:12 - Sometimes they need help backing it up too.

27:14 Like you gotta work then with the business case with the CFO.

27:17 - Totally, totally.

27:18 Yeah, like you said, it's sort of a gut level,

27:21 but when you can speak their language,

27:22 I think that's when it makes it the most fun

27:24 and it just becomes a no-brainer.

27:27 I really, I come back to this idea

27:30 of leading and lagging metrics.

27:32 And every time I've been able to do this,

27:34 every time I've found a way to capture a leading metric

27:40 to the outcomes, the revenue outcomes

27:42 that the business or the CRO, CEO wanna drive,

27:46 I've found success in my career.

27:48 And those leading metrics can be something as simple as,

27:52 are we seeing gone mentions,

27:54 conversational intelligence mentions go up post-training,

27:59 measuring that over time

28:01 and seeing sort of the behavior change

28:04 that enablement caused and then correlating it.

28:08 It's not always causation,

28:09 but correlating it, by the way, we saw this thing change,

28:13 we saw this increase.

28:16 When I was a guru, it was right at the cusp

28:19 of chat GPT coming out and there was this explosion

28:23 of like AI this, AI that, what does it mean?

28:26 And we really needed to make our team conversant

28:28 in AI language.

28:29 There was always, there had already been AI built

28:33 into the system, but we needed to make the team

28:35 more conversant in what is AI for guru?

28:40 How are we thinking about it?

28:41 What are we doing?

28:42 And so we ran this training series of trainings

28:46 to kind of like bring them up to speed on,

28:49 what's the latest?

28:51 What is the product level capabilities with regards to AI?

28:55 We want you to be proactively talking about this more.

28:59 So we measured that and we measured it.

29:01 I think it was something like 20% of the calls

29:04 that they were having at the time,

29:07 that was sort of our baseline included AI,

29:10 some measure of AI in there.

29:13 And after this training, we saw it go up

29:15 and we actually saw it go up.

29:17 It's such a steep curve within two to three months

29:20 that it was 60% of the calls they were talking about AI.

29:25 So I was able to sort of come back and say,

29:27 well, look at this change.

29:28 We've changed this behavior significantly.

29:30 Let's take a look at our ACV.

29:33 Let's take a look at how our deals are progressing.

29:36 And lo and behold, we saw our ACV double

29:38 over that period of time.

29:40 So it's conversations like those that make a real difference

29:44 to building that investment,

29:46 to building more headcount, to articulating.

29:50 If we can do this, imagine what we can do over here.

29:54 And I think it comes back to that reporting, right?

29:56 Like those rituals.

29:58 If you're constantly sort of sharing,

30:00 hey, this is incrementally how we've changed things.

30:03 This is how it rolls up to the top line number

30:05 that you're the North star that you're most concerned about.

30:08 If you're constantly doing that,

30:10 it doesn't become this like big ask

30:13 and there's not this like,

30:15 I've got to present this business justification.

30:17 You may have to, it depends on the company,

30:19 but it becomes a lot easier if incrementally over time,

30:23 you've constantly been sharing,

30:24 hey, we've added this many QOs

30:27 based on this training that we've done

30:29 or in correlation with this training that we've done.

30:32 And it's showing up in sort of the bottom line number

30:36 of the deals that we're now closing.

30:38 When you can do that over time,

30:41 it makes those conversations much easier,

30:44 much more streamlined

30:45 and kind of a no-brainer for everybody.

30:48 - I also don't think some people understand the magnitude

30:51 of what increasing conversion rate

30:54 or increasing ACV can do and what it can be.

30:58 I'll give an easy example.

31:00 If you're on a $20 million booking plan

31:03 and let's say you have a 20% conversion rate,

31:06 so you need $100 million to build a pipeline to get there.

31:11 On the same pipeline with the same reps,

31:13 with the same pricing, with the same everything,

31:15 if you don't change a single other thing,

31:17 but you improve conversion rate by 1%,

31:20 you'll add another million dollars of bookings

31:22 into the plan.

31:24 - Yeah.

31:25 - One small minor improvement can pay for enablement

31:32 over and over again.

31:34 And by the way, that's the opportunistic approach to it.

31:37 If you don't make these investments,

31:40 the same math works the other way.

31:42 - Yeah.

31:43 - If you start to experience drift with your new reps

31:47 not performing as well as what the experienced reps are

31:50 and that conversion rate starts to dip down,

31:52 you could be losing millions of dollars as well.

31:55 So I think the teams that can articulate

31:58 the numbers really well,

31:59 I know it's not always fun selling yourself

32:01 and constantly advocating for what you're doing.

32:06 And you don't have to take whole credit for it,

32:08 but you do have to say like,

32:11 I don't know the exact number that's attributed

32:13 to everything I did,

32:14 but I do know we influenced it and it's correlated.

32:17 And there's immense value in keeping the yield

32:21 as high as possible with your team.

32:24 I also think there's an interesting note in there of like,

32:29 you're also taking reps off the field

32:32 or out of the field to do enablement.

32:35 And so I think there's like an implicit justification too

32:39 and enablement has the responsibility to say,

32:42 here's the impact of that time investment

32:45 that I'm requiring from your team, from your managers.

32:49 I think it also goes to that point too.

32:51 And if you're constantly telling the leadership,

32:55 the managers, here's how we're measuring it,

32:57 it is changing, we're going from 20% to 60%.

33:02 Like that investment becomes much easier,

33:05 that time investment becomes much easier.

33:07 The reps understand why.

33:09 I think enablement can be sometimes

33:12 it's so important to provide context.

33:14 I talked about that no surprises idea.

33:17 This helps bring down sort of that,

33:20 why am I doing this thing?

33:21 Why is enablement asking?

33:23 You can build that trust over time

33:25 by constantly measuring it.

33:28 - What's been the biggest challenge

33:31 across your career in enablement

33:34 that if you were to give any advice to somebody else

33:38 going down the same path,

33:39 you could maybe help prepare them for.

33:43 - Yeah, I think it really revolves

33:45 around this measurement idea.

33:47 I don't think there's ever been a place

33:48 and I've been at places that have been very sophisticated

33:52 in terms of the way they measure,

33:55 in terms of the RevOps teams that they have.

33:59 I don't think there's ever been a place

34:00 where enablement has had enough

34:04 cache or speed to be able to measure

34:09 the things that they want to measure

34:11 as quickly as they want to measure them.

34:13 And to keep a real beat on that.

34:16 And so I guess what I've learned is you have to be creative.

34:20 You have to find a way to get dirty with the data.

34:24 Enablement isn't always sort of

34:26 come from a background of data.

34:28 They don't come from a background of

34:30 how do these things work?

34:31 How do these revenue systems come together?

34:33 But you've got to find a way to get creative

34:35 to measure those leading outcomes,

34:37 to measure what matters to enablement.

34:40 Because that's the only way that you'll speak to leadership.

34:42 If you can connect those to the revenue outcomes

34:44 that sort of matter to them, that's the only way.

34:48 And so sometimes it's, hey, this data is directional.

34:52 Here's how I found it.

34:53 Here's how I'm measuring time to first deal.

34:56 May not be the perfect way.

34:58 But I'm gonna measure it over time

35:01 and it will change with the business.

35:03 But it is directional.

35:04 And what we're seeing on the other side,

35:06 this correlation, is that these reps are ramping quicker

35:10 than they were before.

35:10 And I measured the before the same way.

35:13 I've had to do this at every single company

35:15 is just scratch my head, get dirty with the data,

35:19 figure it out.

35:20 And I think that becomes not only

35:23 that's been a challenge in my career,

35:25 to find that at different companies

35:27 and have to do that myself.

35:29 I've also found it to be the strongest accelerant

35:34 to my career at each company.

35:36 When I have that voice and I can stand behind the data

35:39 and say, here's how I measured it.

35:40 I know it inside and out.

35:42 I've worked with RevOps.

35:43 Or I figured this out myself

35:45 and it's correlated with what RevOps is doing.

35:47 And these outcomes are showing up in the correlation.

35:51 It's been such an accelerant to what I do,

35:55 both in my career,

35:57 but also in my advancement within that company.

36:00 - Let's get specific, 'cause I agree with you.

36:02 Whenever I have had control over the data,

36:06 which I started LeanScale in 2021

36:08 before that I ran RevOps for three companies,

36:11 nothing gave me more influence,

36:13 nothing helped me advocate for my team more

36:16 than having absolute control,

36:18 conviction and confidence in the data.

36:23 As a head of enablement,

36:24 what are those metrics that matter?

36:27 If you had your ultimate data cockpit,

36:30 what are the standard things every enablement person

36:33 should be measuring and monitoring?

36:36 And then maybe what are some of the unique ones

36:38 that may pop up in different scenarios?

36:40 - I'll throw out a couple that I think are really, really fun.

36:43 I've talked a lot about conversational intelligence.

36:46 I think traditionally it's been like,

36:48 are these things mentioned?

36:50 Are we tracking?

36:51 Are they saying these things that we've taught them?

36:55 I think that's a very easy one to measure.

36:58 - The prerequisite for that, I'm curious.

37:00 So you would want to first codify the things

37:05 you want the reps to be talking about.

37:07 And coming up with,

37:09 hey, these are the things that we want to make sure

37:11 are happening on every single call.

37:13 That way you can measure that, right?

37:16 - Yeah, you can do that.

37:16 You can also do it after the fact.

37:19 And it can be a little more ad hoc to your point.

37:21 Sometimes enablement's moving quickly.

37:23 You get something out the door.

37:24 What's great about sort of a lot

37:26 of these conversational intelligence tools

37:28 is you can look back.

37:29 You can scratch your head and you say,

37:31 these were the things we were training on,

37:33 codifying those.

37:35 And let's look back and see,

37:37 was that happening before, to what degree?

37:39 And what's happening now?

37:41 I think when it comes to sort of like

37:43 sales methodology behaviors,

37:44 absolutely, yes, you're so spot on, Anthony.

37:47 Yes, we need to codify those,

37:49 plug those into these systems and say,

37:51 over time, what's happening?

37:53 With the ways that we're asking reps to go to market.

37:56 So that's certainly one is measuring at that level.

38:00 Where I found some other interesting areas to measure

38:04 is Slack, I think a lot happens in Slack.

38:07 One thing I've measured in my career is like,

38:10 we roll something out, there's confusion.

38:13 I'm measuring like the number of repeat questions.

38:17 And now with AI, you can ask your LLM,

38:20 like how often in this channel

38:23 are we seeing repeat questions show up

38:25 or questions that are similar?

38:27 You run a training and you say,

38:29 now are these repeat questions continuing to happen

38:32 at the same rate that we had before?

38:35 I think that's a really interesting barometer.

38:37 It's a very interesting barometer

38:39 for the subject matter experts

38:40 who are answering in that channel.

38:42 You can reduce that by running a training and say,

38:44 by the way, I've made your job a little bit easier.

38:47 You're not answering the same level of questions,

38:49 but for the field as well,

38:51 they're now asking questions

38:53 and I've seen this trend happen at multiple companies.

38:55 When you reduce the repeat questions

38:58 in Slack and email and Jira, wherever,

39:00 you start to see that the questions become

39:02 much more deal specific, much more nuanced.

39:05 And to me, that's a sign that like,

39:07 hey, you've done the foundational training.

39:10 Folks have the sort of common understanding

39:13 about the different things that you need to do,

39:16 but they are asking much deeper questions.

39:18 They're thinking about these problems

39:20 at a much deeper level,

39:21 which is what you want them to be doing.

39:23 - Those make a lot of sense.

39:24 I'm wondering if there are any other measurements

39:27 that you wanna make sure you're capturing

39:29 for your enablement cockpit

39:31 and also the ones that are articulating value

39:33 for enablement as well.

39:35 - Yeah, I'd like to tell a story just like,

39:38 I think it's important to be measuring sort of how,

39:43 from a competitive lens, how are things landing?

39:46 I think nowadays there's probably a weirder competitive lens

39:50 for a lot of companies that are kind of upstarts

39:52 where the competitor is billed versus buy.

39:56 And so that becomes a new unique area to lean in,

40:00 especially for some of the AI native companies.

40:02 But when I measured competitive win rates

40:05 as a part of that win-loss program,

40:07 that was something we did quarter in and quarter out.

40:10 Here's our top five competitors.

40:12 Are we seeing them show up in deals?

40:14 And this was like pre-gong, pre-anything.

40:18 This was pretty dirty spreadsheet that we were running,

40:20 but we had a sales kickoff coming up

40:23 and the initial direction was like,

40:25 let's just do more sales training.

40:28 But because we were measuring this competitive win rate,

40:30 I saw over time that we had this persistent decline

40:34 against two of our biggest competitors.

40:36 And I think maybe this is a key insight for enablement too,

40:39 of bringing programs forward based on that data.

40:43 But I was able to sort of bring this data to our CRO

40:45 and say, hey, this isn't just an isolated event.

40:49 This is a trend, a pattern we've seen

40:51 across successive quarters.

40:53 Is there something we can do at kickoff

40:55 that focuses here?

40:57 And because I had the data,

40:59 we were able to sort of make that case.

41:02 And what we did was we did sort of this,

41:05 peer-to-peer training at sales kickoff.

41:07 We had some reps come up,

41:09 talk about what they'd done, what they'd done differently,

41:12 or even just their process for beating these competitors.

41:16 And sometimes it's so helpful to have reps speak out.

41:20 They're learning themselves like,

41:21 oh, hey, I did this thing kind of well.

41:24 I should probably replicate that on my own deal.

41:26 Like enablement can sometimes be the teach back,

41:30 but it also makes it more attainable for the field.

41:32 I think like sometimes it's so hard

41:35 to kind of like picture this training as helping me.

41:39 But if you have a rep speaking to that,

41:42 it really can put it in the sort of lens of,

41:45 oh, I can do this too.

41:46 This is attainable, this is achievable.

41:48 The long way to say like, after this training,

41:51 we watched the competitive win rates

41:54 against those two competitors.

41:56 We focused on our top two.

41:58 And that following quarter,

42:00 we saw our win rate go up 10 points

42:03 against one competitor and 15 points another.

42:06 And this wasn't a competitor

42:07 that we were competing against one, two times.

42:11 So your point of like that incremental change

42:14 being a huge outcome.

42:15 We had six figure sort of ACV deals,

42:19 or our ACV was about six figures

42:22 or in the six figure range.

42:23 So that change, that 10 to 15 point percentage change

42:28 made a huge impact on what we were doing,

42:32 what we were bringing in,

42:33 but it also gave enablement again,

42:35 sort of that further momentum and that cache to say,

42:38 here's the data that I saw, here's what we did,

42:41 and here's the outcome.

42:43 Now let's do more.

42:45 - And let me remind anyone listening,

42:46 that's without adding another rep,

42:49 without adding product capabilities,

42:52 without doing more marketing,

42:54 without making another dollar investment anywhere else,

42:59 those gains are massive.

43:01 So I think just especially once the team is at scale,

43:06 these yield changes,

43:09 these yield shifts can mean millions and millions of dollars

43:13 and really getting your team efficient

43:16 and running really, really well.

43:18 - I have a question 'cause I think this is probably

43:22 one of the most misconstrued aspects of hiring

43:27 and bringing salespeople in.

43:29 There's this concept of ramp,

43:31 and people will throw out the term,

43:33 well, when are the salespeople gonna be ramped?

43:35 And I think a lot of people have

43:36 a million different definitions for what that is.

43:41 From your perspective as an enablement professional,

43:44 what does a fully ramped salesperson mean

43:48 and how do you get them there?

43:50 - Yeah, I think you gotta see the behaviors.

43:53 You gotta see someone who's,

43:55 you take a look at what reps are consistent

43:58 quarter in, quarter out.

44:00 They're showing the same sort of output consistently,

44:04 which sometimes at some companies can be very easy to see

44:09 because not a lot are doing that.

44:11 They have these bumps and lumps.

44:12 So it's looking at that and then it's spending time

44:15 understanding what are the behaviors that sit behind that?

44:18 How often are they on the phone?

44:21 How much are they self-sourcing to create their own pipeline?

44:24 What are they doing from sort of a brass tacks

44:28 foundational perspective?

44:31 And you're looking to see what do their calls look like?

44:35 Are they following these certain behaviors

44:36 that we've agreed upon?

44:38 And it's maybe tweaking some of the processes that you have,

44:41 then it's enabling to that and you spell that out.

44:44 You say, very clearly in the onboarding,

44:47 this is what top reps do.

44:49 Here's the data.

44:51 This is what you're expected to do.

44:53 This is how you're expected to inspect your own pipeline.

44:56 This is how you're expected to re-qualify.

44:59 Week in, week out, this is how you're expected to run

45:03 the give get sort of conversation throughout the process

45:06 from day one to the end of a sales cycle.

45:10 So I think it's looking at those behaviors

45:12 and then working back.

45:13 I also think it's really important to work

45:15 with the leadership and understand

45:17 what is time to first deal?

45:19 What does ramp look like to them?

45:21 Because you can come up with as many metrics as you want

45:24 or any sort of framework, but if it doesn't land for them

45:27 and there's not sort of a consensus or agreement

45:30 at that level, you're always gonna get into

45:33 sort of these knife fights at the end.

45:35 And I've seen different measures,

45:37 different measures of what time to first deal looks like.

45:40 And then one other thing that I've done

45:43 and I think is a really interesting way to look at this

45:45 is sort of a leading metric to that

45:50 is not looking at time to first deal,

45:52 but looking at time to fourth or fifth deal.

45:55 Are the reps creating momentum?

45:57 And that can be an early flag, early signal

45:59 to those managers where you can provide intervention

46:03 at that stage if you're not seeing that period of time

46:07 accelerate happen within sort of the window

46:10 that you would expect.

46:12 And you're not just looking at time to first deal

46:13 and saying, great, they close their first deal.

46:15 But what momentum are they creating?

46:17 And I have found once they sort of break the seal,

46:20 they can start creating their own momentum.

46:23 But if something wobbles within that sort of first few deals,

46:28 you can provide intervention and make sure that

46:31 they are on track to achieve the behaviors

46:33 that you want them to achieve for a fully productive rep.

46:38 - Let me rephrase what I'm not hearing.

46:41 Ramp does not mean they're trained on the product

46:44 and ready to do a demo.

46:46 - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

46:48 - Which I think a lot of people are like,

46:50 train them on the product, walk through the pitch deck,

46:54 they're ready to go.

46:55 First one, two weeks, lock and load.

46:57 We have a ramped rep and it's like, no, no, no, no, no.

47:00 There is so much more that goes into it

47:02 before you have confidence that this person can reliably

47:06 and continuously hit their quota and produce for you.

47:09 - Yeah, I think I'll just add one more note to that.

47:13 When I found the most success in thinking about onboarding,

47:17 it's not, to your point, shoving a bunch of stuff at them

47:21 and saying, this is the latest and greatest,

47:22 go figure it out.

47:24 It's building it around the sales process

47:27 so that a rep knows, okay, I got a deal.

47:29 What do I do next?

47:30 And you create this sort of like,

47:32 you orient and you speak their language, frankly,

47:36 for how they think about their work.

47:39 When you orient the onboarding program process

47:44 around the sales process or the sales journey,

47:47 it becomes much easier for them to quickly recall,

47:50 oh, this is what I learned about,

47:54 what I need to do with an SQL.

47:56 Or this is how the process happens

48:00 when I move it to propose.

48:02 These are the resources that I need during this.

48:04 This is the actions, the behaviors, the exit criteria

48:07 that I need to achieve.

48:09 It gives them sort of that lens to be able to recall,

48:13 which is so important 'cause they're drinking

48:14 from the fire hose at that first few weeks.

48:19 And if you can orient them,

48:20 that awareness pays off in dividends.

48:25 - I think it's an excellent frame of reference

48:28 that you have for describing how to get somebody to ramp.

48:32 This would not be a podcast in 2026 if I didn't ask you,

48:37 how are you leveraging AI in enablement?

48:41 And what is the most modern approach to enablement today?

48:47 - Well, gosh, it's changing every day.

48:50 There's more capabilities.

48:52 There's more things I'm like hearing about,

48:54 learning about, have access to.

48:57 I'm doing some really interesting analysis

49:00 by connecting to a lot of our data sources,

49:02 our data warehouses to really analyze call data,

49:06 understand how that's happening outside

49:08 of some of the systems that we've traditionally used.

49:11 In my old win-loss days when I had a spreadsheet

49:14 and I was downloading it and running pivot tables,

49:16 this was like the pipe dream and I'm now living it.

49:18 So it's so much fun.

49:20 And I would say like to anybody who's in enablement,

49:23 like just get out there, explore, try new things,

49:26 get creative.

49:27 But the thing that I've seen kind of come online recently

49:31 and a lot of companies are leaning into it,

49:33 and I think it could be really, really interesting,

49:35 is sort of this sense of role play.

49:38 There are now ways and companies that are running,

49:43 that have these platforms that are ingesting a ton of data,

49:46 a ton of like methodologies, your own methodologies,

49:50 your own call data to prepare for calls.

49:55 And this could be anyone from a rep to an SDR

49:59 to even CS running QBRs.

50:02 And I think this idea of being able to practice

50:05 outside of live deals.

50:09 And we all know how critical it is to close live deals

50:11 right now in 2026.

50:13 Like you don't want to be wasting your pipeline,

50:16 sort of figuring it out.

50:17 This comes, you know, this goes

50:18 to our onboarding conversation.

50:20 Like you want reps to be able to practice multiple times

50:23 and work out the kinks.

50:25 And then you want to create the behavior

50:27 where reps are doing this, you know, prior to calls.

50:30 They understand the call they're going into,

50:32 and they're able to practice just like you would

50:35 for a big speech, right?

50:36 You would practice, you know, with someone.

50:40 You'd look in the mirror, you'd practice that.

50:42 And I think the opportunities to do that now with AI

50:45 are so critical.

50:46 I had a sales leader who said, you know,

50:48 this is the same thing as like stretching

50:51 and working out the hammies before you go for,

50:54 you know, a sprint.

50:55 And I'm really sort of excited to see where this space goes

50:58 and how realistic it can get

51:00 and how forward thinking it can get, you know,

51:02 bringing in, you know, the calls that are already

51:05 on your calendar and prepping you

51:06 for those specific personas, those specific transcripts.

51:10 I think that can be a really exciting area.

51:13 And once reps sort of see the value of it,

51:15 I think it is a new space, so it's challenging.

51:17 I think the ones who will succeed

51:19 are the ones who are leaning into that practice.

51:21 And we're already seeing it here of who me,

51:23 the ones who are doing that are our top performers.

51:27 And they are our top performers because they're still hungry.

51:30 They still have that chip on their shoulder

51:32 to make this happen, to get out there, to be resourceful,

51:35 to take every opportunity to get better

51:38 and sharpen that axe every day.

51:40 Well, I think it's a really exciting time to leverage AI.

51:43 And especially in the role-playing sense,

51:44 I mean, I've never done a presentation

51:47 or walked into a big meeting without doing a dry run.

51:51 And I think being able to do dry runs at scale

51:54 because you don't need a loop in a million people

51:56 in order to do it effectively,

51:58 I think is gonna be fantastic.

52:00 And like you said, the reps that take advantage of it

52:02 will show in their performance.

52:06 But Chad, thank you so much.

52:08 This has been an absolute masterclass in enablement.

52:12 I think it's one of the most misunderstood parts

52:15 of operations and go-to-market

52:18 and exactly what does good look like in here.

52:20 And I think you've laid out a really, really strong roadmap

52:23 first showing how to lay the groundwork

52:26 to get the data that you need to make decisions

52:29 and advocate for the proper amount of resources

52:31 that you need to do a good job.

52:33 So we're looking at increasing the yield,

52:35 whether it's conversion rate, ACV, moving velocity,

52:39 moving things through the funnel quicker.

52:41 And as we mentioned, small increments and improvement

52:44 can have massive outsized gains

52:47 and the equation also runs the other way.

52:50 So this is not only in an area to invest in

52:54 just for opportunities,

52:56 but also to mitigate downside risk as well,

52:59 especially as you're growing and scaling.

53:01 You're gonna be adding tens and tens of reps

53:04 as you're growing, as you're building fast.

53:07 And it requires a lot to get one of those reps

53:10 ramped and onboarded.

53:12 And again, ramping does not mean

53:14 they're trained on the product.

53:15 It means they're predictably reliably closing deals,

53:18 hitting their quota, producing at the rate

53:20 you expect them to.

53:21 So Chad, just thank you for everything here,

53:24 excited for people to listen,

53:26 excited for this to be on LeanScale's MCP

53:28 so people can query anything from the conversation.

53:31 And I can't wait to see what you do next.

53:36 - Oh, well, thank you, Anthony.

53:37 This has been so much fun.

53:38 I love that the enablement worlds

53:41 and the RevOps worlds are coming together

53:43 in this conversation.

53:44 I think that's where this space is going.

53:47 And I love that we get to talk about it

53:49 and you can tell I'm super passionate about it.

53:51 So I wanna see these worlds come together more

53:54 and this is a perfect opportunity for that.

53:56 And like I said, this has been such a fun,

53:58 thoughtful conversation.

53:59 So thank you for your questions.

54:00 And if anybody out there has any questions for me,

54:03 like I love this stuff.

54:05 It is so fun to talk about

54:06 and learn from the community of RevOps and enablement.

54:11 So always feel free to reach out.

54:13 I'm happy to chat at any point.