---
title: "Risk Is a Growth Function"
episode: 138
podcast: "The LeanScale Podcast"
publisher: "LeanScale"
guest: "Lalitha Rao"
guest_title: "Chief Risk Officer, Imprint"
date_published: 2026-10-13
date_modified: 2026-10-21
duration: 00:43:02
word_count: 6892
topics: ["gtm-strategy", "enterprise-sales", "sales-leadership", "ai-in-gtm", "revenue-operations"]
canonical_url: https://www.leanscale.team/knowledge/podcast/lalitha-rao-tyler-dibble-imprint-risk-is-a-growth-function/
source: "LeanScale Knowledge Hub — https://www.leanscale.team/knowledge"
license: "Free to quote and cite with attribution to The LeanScale Podcast."
---

# Risk Is a Growth Function — Full Transcript

> Episode 138 of The LeanScale Podcast, with Lalitha Rao.
> Published October 13, 2026 · 00:43:02 · 6892 words.
> Machine-transcribed and **not diarized** — speaker attribution is inferred, so verify
> attribution against the audio before quoting a specific person.
> Structured breakdown: https://www.leanscale.team/knowledge/podcast/lalitha-rao-tyler-dibble-imprint-risk-is-a-growth-function/

## 00:00 — Cold open + intro: two CROs, one company

**[0:00]** Today is a first for this show to guest, both of whom are CRO and they work at the same company.

**[0:07]** Give me to the last decision where the two of you genuinely did not agree.

**[0:12]** What was the call and how did it actually get settled?

**[0:15]** Tyler, our chief revenue officer, was actually the first one to say hold on is, you know,

**[0:22]** this is the right environment for us to be actually making that change.

**[0:26]** It feels like that spray and pray email blast motions haven't been as effective.

**[0:34]** And I think that leads to inbounds, not even outbounds based upon,

**[0:37]** hey, I saw what you're doing over there. I love that. I've never seen that before.

**[0:40]** Mostly your AI strategy is more of a data model problem.

**[0:44]** An answer to a question can never be that's what the agent told us, right?

**[0:48]** We have to be able to show our work, our new partnership with Kroger and went live with that

**[0:53]** program. Kroger is the largest standalone grocery store in the United States.

**[0:57]** Seeing risk and revenue together on the same team.

**[1:01]** I think it's a model for how companies should be approaching this.

**[1:06]** I would love to hear what is next for imprint.

## 01:16 — The last disagreement: risk pushed to expand, revenue asked to wait

**[1:16]** So you two have the same three letter title and you sit on the same P&L.

**[1:21]** Take me to the last decision where the two of you genuinely did not agree.

**[1:27]** What was the call and how did it actually get settled?

**[1:31]** Yeah, this is a fun one and I think it's going to be a surprising one too.

**[1:39]** Actually, the last thing that I can recall is just from a couple of weeks ago.

**[1:45]** And I was advocating for a policy expansion. We've invested a lot in alternative data sources

**[1:54]** to be able to enhance our fraud detection and mitigation capabilities.

**[1:59]** And the idea was to be able to reduce the customers that we are sending through

**[2:06]** what we call an IDB intervention.

**[2:08]** Now, even though our IDB process is quite frictionless and easy to do,

**[2:14]** we take adding any friction into our flow very, very seriously.

**[2:20]** And there's a very high bar.

**[2:21]** So where we can reduce that, we're excited to do that.

**[2:25]** And it certainly helps with conversion.

**[2:27]** So I was advocating for this change to our policy

**[2:31]** to actually expand approval rates and reduce the surface area of IDVs.

**[2:37]** And Tyler, our chief revenue officer, was actually the first one to say,

**[2:45]** hold on, is this the right environment for us to be actually making that change,

**[2:51]** given the fact that AI tooling available to fraudsters has also rapidly increased innovation

**[3:00]** in terms of the type of fraud that we are seeing.

**[3:03]** So it was very interesting.

**[3:05]** Of course, I walked him through the rationale here

**[3:10]** and how we were enabling it safely in a very data-driven manner

**[3:15]** and felt confident with that decision.

**[3:17]** But just that example should give you a sense of the dynamic here.

**[3:22]** We're both really optimizing for growth,

**[3:27]** but growth that is durable and resilient and would last us through the economic cycle.

**[3:35]** Tyler, what kept you both aligned where you have the chief risk officer saying,

**[3:41]** hey, let's accelerate.

**[3:42]** And you're actually in the seat trying to hold back.

**[3:45]** What mechanism is keeping you both together?

**[3:48]** I think it's less about holding back.

**[3:49]** And it's more about ensuring that the growth that we're driving is durable and resilient.

**[3:55]** That's what Lillieth and I are both focused on.

**[3:58]** It's what the whole leadership team here is focused on.

**[4:00]** But the other side of that in my job is working with our partners directly.

**[4:04]** And these are brands with 100-year legacies, more than 100-year legacies.

**[4:08]** They're not optimizing for a number on a slide tomorrow.

**[4:12]** They're optimizing for long-term, durable relationships with their customers.

**[4:17]** And that's what we need to enable.

**[4:19]** And so making sure that we are supporting them,

**[4:24]** we're helping them build those relationships without causing blowback, right?

**[4:28]** So us overextending a customer and they getting into trouble on their credit card,

**[4:33]** not only is it terrible for the customer,

**[4:34]** it's the brands don't want to see that either, right?

**[4:36]** We want to make sure that we are setting these customers up for success

**[4:41]** because it's not just their personal success,

**[4:43]** which is incredibly important in terms of financial empowerment,

**[4:46]** but also success of the brand for which they have a deep relationship

**[4:50]** and we're trying to support that relationship.

**[4:53]** And so there is absolutely a trade-off between

**[4:55]** short-term quick dopamine hits of growth

**[4:59]** and then building for the long-term, durable, resilient kind of platform

**[5:04]** and user base that we need to see with our partners and our members.

## 05:09 — One profitability target: why no tiebreaker is needed

**[5:09]** So when you both sit down in executive meeting,

**[5:11]** you're going to a board meeting together,

**[5:13]** do you have a shared target, shared goal that makes this decision-making easier?

**[5:19]** Because I've seen it where one executive has a goal to accomplish something,

**[5:23]** so they're going to do everything they can to hit their number.

**[5:25]** Another one has something else,

**[5:27]** but they're competing against each other.

**[5:29]** What type of goal system do you all have set up to keep you aligned?

**[5:34]** I can get us started here, Tyler, jump in.

**[5:36]** We definitely have our individual metrics that we are looking at.

**[5:40]** You know, I'm looking at things like approval rates,

**[5:43]** I'm looking at offer acceptance rates,

**[5:47]** and Tyler is, of course, focused on how many accounts are we adding.

**[5:51]** But ultimately, we are both also accountable

**[5:55]** for making sure that we are balancing that risk and reward trade-off

**[6:01]** in an optimal manner and maximizing for profitability as well.

**[6:06]** So I think that is, you know, an area where, you know,

**[6:09]** it's very clear to us that that's ultimately the objective.

**[6:13]** Risk at imprint is really not a traditional control function.

**[6:19]** I am not incentivized to minimize losses.

**[6:24]** Really, my role is to drive growth, to find ways to say yes,

**[6:29]** but say that safely while staying within our risk appetite.

**[6:35]** Yeah, I think I'd say there's a big difference

**[6:38]** between what do we measure within our given teams

**[6:40]** and where we have the most control and what are we accountable for, right?

**[6:44]** And so we're measuring the things that are leading indicators

**[6:46]** of that durable growth that we talked about.

**[6:48]** But ultimately, we're both accountable for company profitability

**[6:52]** and helping our partners grow these brands

**[6:55]** and the relationships with their customers.

**[6:56]** That's what we're accountable for.

**[6:59]** And it actually makes it really easy at the end of the day

**[7:02]** when that's the North Star.

**[7:04]** And that's what not just the two of us,

**[7:06]** but the whole company culture is focused on, is supporting that outcome.

**[7:11]** There's actually very few disagreements about the direction that we should go.

**[7:15]** Sometimes it's about the pace.

**[7:16]** Sometimes it's about the scale of a test, things like that.

**[7:18]** How quickly can we get the learnings

**[7:20]** because we're all really excited about something.

**[7:23]** But in terms of the direction and the decision-making, it's really helpful.

**[7:28]** A tiebreaker is not needed when we're working off the same target.

**[7:35]** I worked with a CRO, his name's Tom Miller,

**[7:38]** and he ran companies like Zscaler.

**[7:40]** Him and I worked together at E-mailage,

**[7:41]** and he's worked at a number of excellent cybersecurity companies.

**[7:45]** And he used to say the most important component of a race car

**[7:49]** to make sure it can go fast is brakes.

**[7:52]** And if you don't have those brakes,

**[7:55]** then you're putting the entire race at risk.

## 07:58 — Partner data as underwriting signal (Rakuten, Booking.com)

**[7:58]** Lalitha, how do you see risk as part of the overall go-to-market strategy

**[8:04]** and growth strategy that you're working on with Tyler?

**[8:06]** Definitely.

**[8:06]** I think we work so closely throughout the life cycle of a deal, if you will.

**[8:13]** And there's really no clean handoffs, as such, across our teams.

**[8:19]** And it's very deliberate.

**[8:21]** So right from the beginning of a deal, we are so in sync about if we can get data

**[8:28]** from our partners that enables us to understand their customer base better,

**[8:36]** we're able to just underwrite in a much more effective manner.

**[8:39]** So to make this real with a partner like Rakuten,

**[8:43]** we're able to get information around how long has a customer been a member with Rakuten?

**[8:50]** How have they been transacting over time?

**[8:53]** What has been that trajectory in terms of spend and engagement?

**[8:57]** And that gives us such great signal from a risk perspective.

**[9:02]** So even if somebody looks like their credit score might not be perfect

**[9:07]** or they might have a blemish on their credit history,

**[9:10]** that additional information to us is a deep signal of high intent and loyalty

**[9:17]** that gives us orthogonal information that's just not available to other issuers

**[9:23]** through the credit bureau alone.

**[9:25]** So we leverage that to be able to expand approval rates, to be able to say yes more,

**[9:31]** expand access to credit, right size the credit lines and the exposure we are taking

**[9:38]** to really be tailored to the usage patterns of that customer,

**[9:44]** their unique spend and reward redemption history as well.

**[9:48]** And that just allows us again to deepen the engagement

**[9:52]** and drive more engagement for our brand partners and more monetization as well.

**[9:58]** So just to make this real, with booking.com a card holder,

**[10:03]** an imprint card holder with booking.com books three to four times as many trips

**[10:09]** as another member that doesn't have a card.

**[10:13]** So we do see this actually drive that incremental spend and engagement in a very tangible way.

**[10:21]** I think unlocking that growth but keeping it safe,

**[10:25]** having your proprietary data that can enable that I think is a huge strategic advantage.

## 10:32 — GTM that starts with the partner's business metrics

**[10:32]** You all are running up on a $1.2 billion valuation recently.

**[10:37]** Tyler, what has been the go-to-market strategy to get imprint to where it is today?

**[10:45]** And what go-to-market motions are working really well?

**[10:50]** Yeah, I think first off, it's finding brands that really want to build those

**[10:54]** relationships with their customers.

**[10:56]** From my team, when we're working with partners day in and day out,

**[10:59]** whether they've already become a partner and launched a program

**[11:02]** or were in early days of the conversation,

**[11:06]** it's understanding that the important number isn't how many card holders do you have.

**[11:11]** It's like, what is the behavior that you want to see?

**[11:12]** What are the business metrics that you want to move?

**[11:15]** And how can we build a card program around those strategic goals and priorities?

**[11:20]** If I never talked to a partner leadership team about the number of card holders,

**[11:26]** the number of transactions, great, because it means that we can talk about

**[11:29]** how we're driving the business and things that actually matter for their business,

**[11:33]** whether it be visits or trips or booking different types of trips

**[11:39]** or total share of wallet at their store.

**[11:42]** And so that's really what it is about, is understanding what matters most to them

**[11:46]** and figuring out who in the organization can get us that insight

**[11:52]** in a way that isn't this quarters or strategy. And it's always a little bit hard to manage

**[11:57]** as leadership has changed at our partners, but focusing on those goals

**[12:03]** and then building not just our reporting around, it's not just what we talk about,

**[12:08]** but it's designing the value prop of the card program,

**[12:11]** how we engage with those customers, where we go find them, right?

**[12:16]** Because it's a balance, we want to impact those metrics.

**[12:21]** But if we say, we're driving 10X the outcome, but it's only across 12 card holders,

**[12:27]** well, that doesn't matter for their business.

**[12:29]** We need to manage both the scale and the behavior and business outcomes together

**[12:34]** to make sure that we're capturing the share of checkout, the outcomes that they want,

**[12:39]** in a way that is actually meaningful for their business and not just a side quest.

## 12:44 — Why the Chief Risk Officer is in the sales room

**[12:44]** When you're in a strategic deal, I mean, I'm seeing logos like booking.com,

**[12:49]** Rakuten, these are huge enterprise accounts.

**[12:52]** Lalitha, do you ever get involved in the sales process or sales strategy

**[12:57]** in order to close these deals?

**[12:59]** Such a good question. And actually I do, right?

**[13:02]** Because so much of what we, our mode is to be able to really use this data.

**[13:12]** We sit so uniquely at the intersection of both the customer and the merchant,

**[13:17]** which gives us this ability to use this additional information from our partners

**[13:23]** to really drive much more access to credit,

**[13:26]** to really right size those credit lines, to drive more spend and engagement.

**[13:31]** So I definitely do join in on those conversations.

**[13:37]** Our partners also want to make sure that the experience that we are offering

**[13:42]** to their cardholders is very, very secure, that we have the state of the art security

**[13:50]** infrastructure in place as well, so that we can keep their cardholder information

**[13:56]** very secure and safe and make sure that the accounts is also very secure.

**[14:02]** So they definitely want to hear from me.

**[14:04]** I think the other thing that we are also uniquely positioned to do is we are a small risk team,

**[14:15]** but we are very nimble in our approach as well.

**[14:18]** So what we do is we're able to iterate very quickly.

**[14:21]** So if we see a cardholder is actually paying us on time,

**[14:26]** showing positive behaviors like linking their bank accounts so we can auto debit their payments,

**[14:32]** we'll actually give them a credit line increase fairly quickly.

**[14:36]** Even two payments in, we'll give you a credit line increase.

**[14:41]** We won't wait for a year or 18 months for the data to bake.

**[14:45]** So we do talk to them about all these capabilities we have

**[14:49]** that really enable us to, again, drive more of that spend and engagement.

**[14:55]** The other thing that I love that's very much a part of our playbook is

**[15:00]** we also want to drive incrementality for our partners.

**[15:04]** So we want to bring in new customers that actually are not currently in their loyalty database already.

**[15:15]** And we are actually able to do this quite successfully as well.

**[15:20]** We're really investing in creating response modeling and targeting modeling

**[15:27]** that allows us to understand who should we be targeting that may be in the vicinity

**[15:32]** of a Crate and Barrel store or an HEB store that doesn't have a card

**[15:38]** that's potentially not a shopper today at HEB,

**[15:41]** but they see this really compelling credit card offer and that brings them into the store.

**[15:48]** So I think that's very much a part of our strategy as well.

**[15:51]** And we're really investing in terms of being able to drive that incrementality

**[15:57]** and new audiences that use the credit card as a gateway in terms of interacting with the brand.

**[16:07]** This seems like a really big competitive advantage.

## 16:11 — Sales-led for logos, marketing-led for cardholders

**[16:11]** Maybe I'll ask a silly question.

**[16:12]** I'm assuming most of the growth is a sales-led motion to get into companies

**[16:19]** like Booking and Rakuten and Crate and Barrel.

**[16:22]** Are you landing mainly through partner channels or sales-led initiatives?

**[16:27]** Or is there a product-led motion going here as well?

**[16:31]** In terms of landing new brands and partnerships, that'd be a sales-led.

**[16:34]** But in terms of within that partnership driving customer growth and member growth

**[16:40]** for our card program, that's a marketing we're driving through marketing,

**[16:44]** both our own marketing and through our partner channels.

**[16:47]** So working with partners on their experiences and their ecosystem

**[16:51]** to make sure that we're surfacing the card, the application,

**[16:55]** whether it's at checkout or onboarding, it depends on their experience.

**[16:59]** But doing it in the right moments where it's contextual and personalized and relevant

**[17:03]** for that customer so that we can get them into the application and serve them,

**[17:09]** they can get more value from that brand.

**[17:11]** So it depends on which partner you're talking about.

**[17:14]** Makes a ton of sense.

**[17:16]** I'm curious, I feel like sitting here, September 30th,

**[17:21]** 2026, so much has changed in GoToMarket, especially in the last couple of years.

**[17:27]** What are some motions that seem to be working to get in front of the brands?

**[17:32]** It feels like that spray and pray, email blast motions haven't been as effective.

**[17:39]** What are you doing today in 2026 to get in front of new logos?

**[17:44]** In terms of getting in front of new logos, I think we have, to date,

**[17:47]** really focused on word of mouth, right?

**[17:51]** So it's not a huge industry.

**[17:54]** We also don't have thousands of partners either, right?

**[17:57]** So there's an opportunity for us to focus on the partners we do have

**[18:02]** and turn them into promoters.

**[18:04]** We do some outreach to brands or enterprise logos that we think would be ripe

**[18:10]** or they have an existing program and we want to win that deal.

**[18:15]** Oftentimes, there's a conversation with an existing partner or someone we've worked

**[18:20]** with already as a way to help us get a foot in the door.

**[18:23]** That has been really effective for us in the past as we've gotten to this scale.

**[18:28]** But we're still exploring new ways to continue to add more and more logos every year.

**[18:34]** We'll never be in a place, I think, for a traditional unsecured credit card program

**[18:40]** where we're adding 500 logos a year.

**[18:43]** I think that's not the business that we're in.

**[18:46]** But we've been doing three to five per year and we're going to target moving that.

**[18:52]** Can we get to five or 10 logos a year in the next 18 to 24 months?

**[18:59]** That's the target.

**[19:00]** And so reaching directly out to those brands, we've built a reputation.

**[19:03]** We've built the foundation and trying to start those relationships early and proactively.

## 19:10 — Owning the stack: SKU-level rewards at H-E-B

**[19:10]** I'll just add to that.

**[19:11]** I think a couple of other things that, like Tyler said, it's that word of mouth that is

**[19:16]** so strong for us is also driven by the fact that we've actually invested

**[19:20]** in building our own vertically integrated tech stack.

**[19:24]** So we don't rely on external processors like T-SYS and Piserv.

**[19:31]** And that's actually a huge advantage for us because it just allows us

**[19:35]** to meet the partners where they're at in a very unique way.

**[19:40]** So an example of this is at HEB, we're able to do Q-level rewards.

**[19:46]** And we were able to really bring in that level of differentiation and granularity

**[19:52]** to our product offering, which I think is very unique and bodes very well for us.

**[19:58]** And I think that leads to inbounds, not even outbounds, right?

**[20:01]** So we get brands reaching out to us based upon, hey, I saw what you're doing over there.

**[20:05]** I love that.

**[20:05]** I've never seen that before in a value prop.

**[20:08]** And how can I get that for my customers?

**[20:11]** That's been, it's very much a privilege and an amazing place for us to be.

**[20:16]** And it's exciting for us.

**[20:18]** And so that's why, that's how we've kind of gotten to where we are today

**[20:22]** is by starting with some of those more dynamic and flexible integrations

**[20:26]** that are only possible because we have our own tech stack.

**[20:30]** I think the winning formula of build a great product,

**[20:34]** take care of your customers always seems to help companies grow

**[20:37]** and get them to where they want to be.

**[20:39]** I'm curious, this proprietary tech stack,

**[20:43]** as well as the proprietary data you have to do your own risk assessments,

**[20:46]** feels like a really strong strategic advantage.

**[20:49]** Lalitha, are you involved quite a bit on enablement of the teams

**[20:52]** that are driving expansion of your existing customers

**[20:55]** and getting in front of the existing customers

**[20:57]** for how they can continue to unlock growth?

**[21:00]** Definitely.

**[21:00]** I think this is something, again, that we're very much a lock step here.

**[21:05]** Like the thing we want to do is, in terms of where we are very uniquely positioned

**[21:14]** to serve our partners, we are a complete data insights

**[21:21]** and intelligence platform, but also a holistic payments platform.

**[21:26]** And we're investing in building out newer payment methods

**[21:30]** for our partners, launching newer products

**[21:32]** so we can really tailor our product offering

**[21:36]** to be very customized to the individual customer.

**[21:40]** I think if you think about where we are headed in this era

**[21:43]** of agentic commerce as well, it's increasingly becoming so important

**[21:50]** to be able to deepen engagement, but do that through the lens of personalization.

**[21:57]** And that's really where we're investing.

**[21:59]** So we are looking to invest in building a holistic understanding

**[22:07]** of each and every customer from the lens of, of course,

**[22:10]** the traditional credit bureau data, but also taking into account

**[22:14]** the partner data we've spoken about, but also very importantly,

**[22:18]** taking into account all the interactions the customer has had

**[22:22]** with our customer service team, all the interactions

**[22:27]** the customer has had in app with us and taking all that context

**[22:31]** at any given time to really determine what is that next best action

**[22:37]** for the customer that's going to deepen engagement,

**[22:41]** bring in more lifetime value and really expand monetization.

**[22:45]** You know, an example that I love to share is that we have a customer

**[22:50]** that's, you know, in the checkout flow, booking an airline ticket

**[22:54]** at booking.com, and this is going to tip them above their credit limit.

**[22:59]** How do we build an experience where we give them a credit limit on the spot

**[23:04]** that allows them to not only book their airline ticket,

**[23:07]** but also their hotel and car rental with us.

**[23:12]** So, you know, that those are the kind of experiences

**[23:16]** that we are looking to develop that are just so deeply personalized.

## 23:21 — No handoffs: one team from signature to scale

**[23:21]** One of the things I'd love to, if I can, like that I think has been coming through

**[23:24]** that maybe is a little different about Imprint,

**[23:27]** is a lot of other folks out there, a lot of companies out there

**[23:32]** will have, you know, the sales team and the revenue team,

**[23:34]** then hands off to legal or hands off to risk to solve problems.

**[23:39]** We argue, like Lillitha and I in particular, but Imprint in general,

**[23:43]** we don't do handoffs, right?

**[23:46]** We, you know, my team lands a brand, a logo,

**[23:50]** my team drives, go to market for that,

**[23:52]** then I don't hand off, okay, now that it's live,

**[23:56]** how do we grow this program, right?

**[23:58]** That's not someone else's job, that's also my team's job, right?

**[24:01]** And how do we get the right data from the partner

**[24:04]** to drive approval rates and drive this flywheel for personalization?

**[24:08]** Lillitha's team is focused on that from day one of the partnership

**[24:12]** and we continue to iterate on that over time

**[24:14]** because the partner evolves, their customers change.

**[24:17]** We bring on new capabilities, new alternative data sources.

**[24:21]** We're constantly kind of building on those

**[24:23]** and so it's that partner obsession that is true across my team, Lillitha's team,

**[24:28]** but really the whole company that means by having that continuity across,

**[24:32]** we don't have any handoffs, right?

**[24:33]** There's no, oh, I didn't know that, I didn't have that context before,

**[24:36]** so like, you know, that's not what the partner wanted,

**[24:39]** so we'll have to backtrack and fix that or that's not possible.

**[24:43]** We can tell them, we know what we can deliver,

**[24:45]** we know what matters to them and we can very quickly on day one,

**[24:49]** start delivering what we need to on those business outcomes we talked about earlier

**[24:55]** and then continue to build on that foundation

**[24:58]** over the duration of the partnership, right?

**[25:00]** These are long-term partnerships, they're not one-year deals,

**[25:02]** they're typically seven or longer, seven years or longer

**[25:05]** and so we're trying to build significantly

**[25:09]** both in terms of capability and scale and outcomes over that duration

**[25:14]** and you can't do that by handing off to someone

**[25:16]** who like is picking up and starting without context, right?

**[25:20]** Super important to us.

**[25:22]** Yeah, and I think you're ahead of the curve on this,

**[25:25]** but I would say a lot of other CROs are following a similar trend.

**[25:30]** We went from having a hyper-fractionalized go-to-market team

**[25:34]** where you have the BDR, SDR, closing AE, onboarding specialist,

**[25:40]** then you have the CSM, then you have the existing,

**[25:42]** you have six to ten people involved in a deal,

**[25:46]** all with the relationship decaying along the way.

**[25:49]** And nobody really owning the entire outcome,

**[25:52]** and especially if you're in this type of business

**[25:55]** where there are large, long-term strategic partnerships

**[25:58]** with the brand, with the partners that you're working

**[26:00]** to get to the brands through.

**[26:02]** I think that full-stack revenue ownership is very important.

**[26:07]** Totally agree, and I think it's really,

**[26:10]** the way I talk to my team about it is I don't ever want to hear,

**[26:13]** the partnership never hear that,

**[26:14]** "Oh, that team dropped the ball, let me go find them,"

**[26:17]** because that team is imprint, right?

**[26:19]** We're all imprint, they should care that it's imprint,

**[26:22]** and if we drop the ball, we should own it,

**[26:23]** we just shouldn't drop the ball, right?

**[26:26]** And so making sure that we are operating as one team

**[26:30]** and presenting to both the partner,

**[26:32]** but also the member, right?

**[26:34]** As one team, and especially when you're member-facing,

**[26:37]** one team includes the enterprise brand

**[26:39]** that we're working closely with.

**[26:40]** We are representing their brand,

**[26:43]** and we have to make sure that we are not just their brand,

**[26:45]** but their culture and their way of doing customer support,

**[26:49]** their way of communicating.

**[26:51]** All of that has to come through

**[26:52]** in every interaction that we have,

**[26:54]** both with the employees at our partners,

**[26:56]** but also with their customers and our members.

**[27:01]** And again, I think that's the right trend,

**[27:03]** kind of wearing the same banner as a company.

## 27:08 — AI on the risk team: build the platform first

**[27:08]** One area I'd like to get into

**[27:10]** is how imprint is implementing AI,

**[27:16]** either on the product side, the risk management,

**[27:19]** risk mitigation side, but also the revenue side,

**[27:22]** and how you're using in your marketing materials,

**[27:26]** and also how you're using AI

**[27:28]** to help take care of your customers.

**[27:31]** Maybe, Lalitha, we could start with you.

**[27:32]** Yeah, definitely.

**[27:34]** I think this is a topic that's near and dear to my heart.

**[27:38]** It's just been such a journey over the last few quarters,

**[27:43]** and I will say, honestly, the day in the life

**[27:46]** of somebody on the risk team today at Imprint

**[27:48]** is entirely different from what it was

**[27:51]** even three or four months ago.

**[27:54]** One thing I'll call out is,

**[27:55]** and I know Tyler will dig into

**[27:57]** how the marketing and the growth teams are using AI,

**[28:00]** but really, at the crux of it

**[28:02]** is the fact that our CTO and tech teams

**[28:06]** really enabled us to do this

**[28:07]** by investing in a centralized platform, if you will,

**[28:12]** that really standardized data access,

**[28:15]** made sure that we had the right scaffolding

**[28:18]** and guardrails in place that unlocked teams

**[28:21]** to build specialized use cases around it.

**[28:24]** So I think I can't underscore enough

**[28:27]** that all this wouldn't have been possible

**[28:29]** without those centralized investments

**[28:31]** that the tech team made,

**[28:33]** and made it really easy for folks

**[28:35]** to get access to the tools,

**[28:37]** but also made sure that it was safe access,

**[28:40]** that it was the right permissioning in place,

**[28:43]** that we had the right rigor

**[28:45]** around how changes are deployed,

**[28:49]** and the right observability through and through

**[28:52]** in terms of, if you have an AI workflow,

**[28:55]** really understanding what are the data sources behind it,

**[28:58]** what is the logic behind it,

**[29:00]** how reproducible it is,

**[29:02]** and how certain you are in terms of the outcomes from it

**[29:06]** was very, very key.

**[29:09]** But aside from that,

**[29:10]** I think, excited to share that it has been

**[29:13]** such an enabler for us on the risk team side.

**[29:18]** A lot of time was spent on very manual,

**[29:20]** sort of more tedious work,

**[29:22]** but very important work,

**[29:23]** like making sure you're gathering data

**[29:25]** from many different sources,

**[29:27]** creating weekly reporting.

**[29:29]** This was actually the first thing

**[29:30]** that we invested in automating,

**[29:32]** and it was a pain point for the team,

**[29:34]** because the team had to do this every week,

**[29:37]** and it was such a big unlock,

**[29:39]** and just helped folks start to get their rhythm

**[29:42]** around adopting AI in different ways.

**[29:46]** But aside from that,

**[29:48]** there's a lot of other work around things

**[29:50]** like making sure we're investing

**[29:52]** in the right governance documentation

**[29:54]** when we deploy new models

**[29:57]** and policies as well

**[29:59]** that we could actually automate using AI,

**[30:02]** and that freed up time for the team

**[30:05]** to spend their time on work

**[30:07]** that's actually strategic,

**[30:09]** work that's actually going to move

**[30:10]** the needle for our partners,

**[30:12]** and we built a suite of agents

**[30:14]** within the team that are doing the work

**[30:16]** that it would take teams of analysts to do.

**[30:20]** So it's been a big unlock,

**[30:22]** and these numbers are very much showing up

**[30:24]** in our metrics.

**[30:26]** So over the last close to a year and a quarter,

**[30:32]** we've seen so much growth within our book,

**[30:34]** our revenue has gone up by about 2.5x,

**[30:38]** our loan book has grown by 150%,

**[30:43]** and our losses have actually improved.

**[30:45]** Newer cohorts are materially lower loss rates

**[30:50]** than cohorts from a year ago,

**[30:53]** and we've done that by barely increasing

**[30:56]** the team size by about four or five

**[31:00]** additional folks on the team.

**[31:03]** So we've been able to accomplish so much more

**[31:07]** from the existing team

**[31:09]** and accelerated so much of our roadmap

**[31:11]** from next year to this year.

**[31:14]** It's been really, really fun to see that.

## 31:18 — AI in GTM: a rebuilt martech stack and faster cycle times

**[31:18]** I want to go back to the first half

**[31:21]** of what you're mentioning as well,

**[31:23]** because I think that's so important.

**[31:24]** It's been the biggest topic I've been speaking on

**[31:27]** that mostly your AI strategy

**[31:30]** is more of a data model problem.

**[31:32]** So can you organize the data?

**[31:35]** Can you build the semantic layer?

**[31:37]** Can you build the context graph

**[31:38]** where AI agents can actually make sense

**[31:40]** of the data, connect the dots?

**[31:42]** And I think it sounds like you've seen

**[31:45]** a tremendous amount of value from that investment.

**[31:49]** Tyler, I'm curious if you're seeing the same thing

**[31:51]** on the go-to-market tech stack side as well,

**[31:56]** and seeing that investment unlock productivity

**[31:59]** on the GTMT.

**[32:01]** Massively, actually, yeah.

**[32:02]** And I think one thing I'll mention is,

**[32:04]** Lalitha touched on observability,

**[32:07]** and I think that's from my seat.

**[32:09]** Also, when I talk to partners,

**[32:10]** we have some partners that are fully AI-pilled,

**[32:13]** and some of which were the other side of the scale.

**[32:16]** And an answer to a question can never be,

**[32:19]** that's what the agent told us, right?

**[32:22]** We have to be able to show our work,

**[32:24]** and yes, we want to move fast,

**[32:25]** and they love the outcomes,

**[32:26]** but sometimes they want to be able to tick and tie

**[32:30]** if they really need to,

**[32:31]** if it really comes down to it.

**[32:32]** And so that observability is incredibly important as well.

**[32:36]** What's happening, how do we drive growth,

**[32:38]** and how is it impacting us?

**[32:39]** One example I'll give is we just rebuilt this year,

**[32:42]** just launched an entirely new MarTech stack

**[32:46]** that allows us to really massively increase

**[32:50]** the level of personalization

**[32:53]** to drive much faster cycle times,

**[32:56]** due to integrations with Snowflake,

**[32:58]** and into our platform.

**[33:00]** So all the data modeling,

**[33:01]** and all the access to data

**[33:02]** that Lolita is talking about for the risk models,

**[33:04]** we're also feeding into,

**[33:05]** how do we drive certain behaviors

**[33:07]** and outcomes for our partners

**[33:09]** across all of the brands that we have, right?

**[33:12]** So we have more than a dozen brands that are live today.

**[33:17]** At the end of the day though,

**[33:18]** the number of actions is not that different,

**[33:21]** at least in the first couple of weeks

**[33:22]** of having a credit card, right?

**[33:24]** I need to use my card,

**[33:25]** I want to add it to my digital wallet,

**[33:27]** drive my first transaction,

**[33:28]** how do I earn and redeem rewards the first time?

**[33:31]** But I go back to we have to make that feel,

**[33:33]** look and feel just like it is

**[33:35]** as if it's coming from these 100 year old brands,

**[33:39]** where these customers have deep relationships.

**[33:43]** And doing that at scale,

**[33:44]** it's been a massive challenge in our history, right?

**[33:47]** As we add new partners,

**[33:48]** it was almost entirely manual to scale these things.

**[33:51]** Now we can do that in a fully AI enabled platform

**[33:55]** with access to the data,

**[33:57]** one click to drive a whole new design implementation

**[34:01]** in our Martech stack,

**[34:03]** and then actually get the comms out to customers

**[34:06]** and see the behavior change or not.

**[34:08]** Sometimes it doesn't, right?

**[34:10]** We wish it always did,

**[34:11]** we wish we always got it right, but we don't.

**[34:13]** And that's okay because that cycle time is so fast

**[34:17]** in this new environment

**[34:19]** that we can learn and improve these things,

**[34:21]** but also it allows us to scale brands

**[34:25]** and add more brands without scaling headcount

**[34:27]** in a linear way, right?

**[34:28]** So from a design team, from an analytics team,

**[34:32]** from a Martech enablement and ops team,

**[34:35]** we haven't really had to scale that headcount

**[34:40]** as we've added new brands, especially over the past year.

**[34:43]** So that's been a huge improvement and unlock for us

**[34:46]** while still driving the outcomes that we want, right?

**[34:48]** And seeing the outcomes that we need for our partners.

**[34:52]** Well, and I think sometimes people

**[34:53]** don't really realize the magnitude

**[34:56]** of improving the cycle time,

**[34:57]** improving the conversion rate of these things,

**[34:59]** just a few points.

**[35:00]** And if you can leverage AI to do that,

**[35:04]** I mean, the investment beyond pays for itself

**[35:07]** once you've done that.

## 35:08 — "Claude got it wrong" is not an answer

**[35:08]** And I just wanna make a comment

**[35:09]** on something you said earlier,

**[35:10]** 'cause I think it's an interesting time

**[35:13]** where people are putting together AI slop documents

**[35:19]** and putting a lot of AI slop content out into the universe.

**[35:22]** And I've actually seen, I saw Clay,

**[35:26]** the enrichment solution for GTM teams,

**[35:29]** they just put out an announcement

**[35:32]** that they have a company policy on AI written content

**[35:36]** that if you publish something with your name on it,

**[35:39]** then you are accountable for everything

**[35:41]** that's written in there.

**[35:42]** And they even have guidelines on,

**[35:44]** hey, more isn't more.

**[35:46]** So don't just keep creating giant documents

**[35:49]** and thinking that it feels thorough.

**[35:50]** But I do think we're getting into this era

**[35:52]** where people are gonna have to kind of reel that back

**[35:54]** and then really own any content they put their name on.

**[35:58]** That so resonates actually with what we've seen

**[36:02]** in terms of our evolution of using AI as well.

**[36:05]** So actually one of the leaders on my team did this analysis

**[36:08]** where we were seeing,

**[36:10]** clutter adoption was skyrocketing.

**[36:13]** The number of proposals and new strategy recommendations

**[36:17]** that were coming my way for review were increasing as well.

**[36:22]** But what we saw is that the length of the documents tripled.

**[36:26]** The number of charts in the document

**[36:30]** came down dramatically

**[36:31]** because Claude likes to work more with tables.

**[36:34]** So as a result of that, we actually did think about

**[36:38]** how do we put guidelines here in terms of best practices?

**[36:42]** Charts are a great way to also sanity check numbers

**[36:45]** and intuition and build intuition

**[36:48]** about whether the proposal makes sense as well.

**[36:52]** So we actually went through that phase and chapter.

**[36:55]** So that very much resonates with me.

**[36:58]** We also had instances where we would have mistakes

**[37:00]** and then we would hear Claude got it wrong.

**[37:03]** And it's really, Claude is amazing

**[37:07]** and Claude is a great coworker

**[37:09]** that helps you drive better outcomes.

**[37:11]** But the accountability has to be with the individual.

**[37:16]** Did anyone ever say Excel got it wrong?

**[37:19]** Has that ever happened?

**[37:20]** Never was an acceptable answer ever.

**[37:24]** I love how this has been personified.

**[37:28]** Your name is on the document.

**[37:29]** You own every word in it.

**[37:30]** Use the tools to get there faster

**[37:32]** and help refine the data and your ideas.

**[37:34]** But you have to own the outcome

**[37:37]** and you have to own the recommendation word for word.

**[37:40]** And if that's not what you're comfortable with,

**[37:43]** don't ship it.

**[37:45]** Whether to me, a coworker or a partner especially, right?

**[37:49]** And so that to me is incredibly important.

**[37:52]** I talk about that to my team.

**[37:54]** It's part of my, when I onboard new people on my team,

**[37:57]** it's one of the things we talk about directly.

**[37:59]** We have amazing tools.

**[38:01]** We have access.

**[38:02]** We live in the future, let's be honest, right?

**[38:04]** But that doesn't mean that you can ship something

**[38:07]** that you're not proud of

**[38:08]** or you don't feel ownership over, ever.

**[38:11]** And I think it's incredible.

**[38:12]** It wasn't even acceptable to say,

**[38:13]** "Hey, the intern got it wrong."

**[38:15]** I don't care if the intern got it wrong.

**[38:16]** You're the one presenting it to the board.

**[38:18]** You're the one presenting to the executive team.

**[38:20]** You own it.

**[38:21]** Yep, a hundred percent.

**[38:23]** So I think it's incredibly important,

**[38:25]** especially in partner facing roles too, right?

**[38:27]** Because then it's not the tool got it wrong

**[38:29]** and it's imprint got it wrong.

**[38:32]** That's right.

**[38:32]** And I think having that mentality kind of across the board

**[38:35]** always helps drive that accountability.

## 38:38 — What's next for Imprint, and the Kroger launch

**[38:38]** I'm curious, you all have done a tremendous job.

**[38:41]** I love seeing the partnership.

**[38:42]** I love how you're leveraging risk as a lever for growth

**[38:47]** and really approaching the market as one team.

**[38:51]** I would love to hear what is next for imprint

**[38:55]** and what is next for your go-to-market motions

**[38:57]** and how you're going to take care

**[38:58]** of your customers and partners.

**[39:00]** I mean, I think what's next is really building

**[39:02]** out new capabilities and adding new products.

**[39:06]** So I mentioned sort of earlier,

**[39:09]** this concept of you need both the behavioral outcomes

**[39:11]** but the scale so that it matters, right?

**[39:14]** And so in a world where we have unsecured credit cards

**[39:18]** as our core product, which is the world we live in today,

**[39:22]** it's impossible for us to serve all of our partners customers

**[39:25]** and to help them build relationships

**[39:27]** with all of their customers.

**[39:29]** And so we are focused really, really deeply

**[39:32]** on how do we bring products to market?

**[39:34]** How do we drive integrations with our partners,

**[39:38]** no matter where they are

**[39:39]** and what level of capability they have within their ecosystem

**[39:43]** that allows them to serve and deepen relationships

**[39:45]** with all of their customers, not just a slice of them.

**[39:50]** So we have some exciting things coming later this year

**[39:52]** and in next year that will help us do that.

**[39:55]** I wish we could talk a little bit more about them today

**[39:57]** but we're not quite ready to do that.

**[40:00]** And I'll just add to that, definitely,

**[40:05]** with all the AI adoption as well,

**[40:07]** we are shipping at a very rapid clip as well.

**[40:11]** So lots of exciting updates coming here.

**[40:14]** But I will say, again, in this era of potentially

**[40:21]** just everything changing in terms of how consumers interact

**[40:25]** with brands, it's going to be harder and harder

**[40:28]** to compete on things like pricing

**[40:31]** and product features alone.

**[40:34]** So you have to kind of really, like I said,

**[40:37]** go back to those data insights

**[40:39]** that can drive deep personalization.

**[40:42]** And I think we are really uniquely set up

**[40:44]** to be that data payments and customer intelligence platform

**[40:50]** for these really large brands to drive every day's spend

**[40:55]** and drive habituation and ultimately drive better outcomes

**[41:00]** for the customers and also our brands.

**[41:04]** And building off of what Lalitha said,

**[41:05]** one of the things we're really excited about today

**[41:08]** is we announced our new partnership with Kroger

**[41:11]** and went live with that program.

**[41:13]** Kroger is the largest standalone grocery store

**[41:15]** in the United States.

**[41:16]** They have a national presence

**[41:18]** across more than a dozen brands

**[41:22]** and are one of the premier partners

**[41:24]** for driving every day's spend

**[41:26]** in relationships with their customers.

**[41:27]** And so we've got a new program in market

**[41:30]** that we announced today

**[41:31]** and really excited to grow that over the coming years

**[41:35]** and looking forward.

**[41:38]** Huge congratulations.

**[41:39]** That's a massive win.

**[41:41]** And I think really just a testament

**[41:43]** to everything that we're talking about here.

**[41:45]** How you're going to market, how you're partnering as a team,

**[41:47]** how you're differentiating in the market as well.

**[41:50]** So just a huge congratulations to landing that logo.

**[41:53]** Well, I love the conversation we had today.

**[41:57]** This is unique for the Lean Scale podcast

**[42:00]** and I appreciate you both participating in this.

**[42:03]** Seeing risk and revenue together on the same team.

**[42:07]** I think it's a model for how companies

**[42:10]** should be approaching this.

**[42:12]** And everything you talked about

**[42:13]** from how you align with your goals and incentives,

**[42:17]** how you're really operating as one team,

**[42:20]** aligned to the same target.

**[42:21]** It's one imprint brand.

**[42:23]** It's not different parts of the company

**[42:25]** that are pointing fingers at each other.

**[42:27]** And then really differentiating through technology and AI

**[42:30]** and how you're taking care of your customers

**[42:32]** and your partners. Amazing story.

**[42:34]** You guys have had incredible success so far

**[42:36]** and I cannot wait to see what you both do next.

**[42:40]** So Lalitha, Tyler, thank you so much for being on the show.

**[42:43]** And it sounds like we might have to catch up again

**[42:45]** in the next six to 12 months to see how things are going.

**[42:48]** Thanks so much. We're really excited.

**[42:50]** I think we have a lot more to talk about next year too.

**[42:53]** So looking forward to it.

**[42:55]** Thank you so much. Such a fun dialogue.

**[42:57]** Really appreciate you having us.

**[43:02]** [BLANK_AUDIO]