---
title: "Where Enablement Goes to Die: The First-Line Manager"
episode: 135
podcast: "The LeanScale Podcast"
publisher: "LeanScale"
guest: "Ally Combs"
guest_title: "Head of GTM Enablement, Bretton AI"
date_published: 2026-10-08
date_modified: 2026-10-21
duration: 01:02:07
word_count: 10029
topics: ["sales-enablement", "sales-leadership", "revenue-operations", "ai-in-gtm", "enterprise-sales"]
canonical_url: https://www.leanscale.team/knowledge/podcast/ally-combs-bretton-ai-where-enablement-goes-to-die/
source: "LeanScale Knowledge Hub — https://www.leanscale.team/knowledge"
license: "Free to quote and cite with attribution to The LeanScale Podcast."
---

# Where Enablement Goes to Die: The First-Line Manager — Full Transcript

> Episode 135 of The LeanScale Podcast, with Ally Combs.
> Published October 8, 2026 · 01:02:07 · 10029 words.
> Machine-transcribed and **not diarized** — speaker attribution is inferred, so verify
> attribution against the audio before quoting a specific person.
> Structured breakdown: https://www.leanscale.team/knowledge/podcast/ally-combs-bretton-ai-where-enablement-goes-to-die/

## 00:00 — Cold open + intro

**[0:00]** If you really, really, really understand how to do true demand generation enterprise sales

**[0:06]** rather than demand fulfillment, and I just kind of fell in love with that vision.

**[0:10]** Allie Combs is the head of GTM enablement at Breton AI, and she has one of the sharpest

**[0:16]** views I've ever heard on why most enablement programs quietly die. In sales, I do feel like

**[0:23]** it's a bit of a tricky role to recruit for. What are some principles that people should

**[0:28]** be looking out for? Because I see people probably misfire on hiring this role more than any other

**[0:36]** role in the organization. You just don't know what you're going to get, because every salesperson is

**[0:41]** going to say that they're the best. I know, it really is a completely different role. I started

**[0:48]** LeanScale in 2021. RevOps essentially meant Salesforce, outreach, gong, if you were very,

**[0:55]** very progressive. Yeah, I would emphasize that 100 times over. My experience over the last nine

**[1:00]** months has been, and I think you'll see this all over the internet, too, but the vibe coding,

**[1:06]** you do have to be really careful with. It can be buggy, it can hallucinate, it can do weird things.

## 01:15 — A pay cut and three demotions to start over as a BDR

**[1:23]** Allie, you were already carrying a bag and selling when you took a pay cut and several

**[1:28]** demotions to go back to being a BDR at AppDynamics. What did you see there that made that trade

**[1:35]** obviously worth it? That's a great question. Certainly a unique move to make in your career.

**[1:43]** And at the time, it was a difficult decision, obviously taking a pay cut and several demotions.

**[1:49]** What really excited me and made me think that leap was this promise or this idea that

**[1:56]** they were going to invest in me, educate me, really teach me how to do true enterprise selling.

**[2:02]** In the years previous in my career, I had done channel sales, it was a bit more transactional,

**[2:08]** still very in aggregate, large dollar volume of goods sold, if you will. But they painted this

**[2:16]** vision for me of, look, you can own your own destiny and own your paycheck if you really,

**[2:22]** really, really understand how to do true demand generation enterprise sales rather than

**[2:29]** demand fulfillment. And I just fell in love with that vision of being in control of my destiny

**[2:36]** and trusted. I had a good impression and trusted that they would do that and they did. It was

**[2:45]** probably the best career decision I made in my whole life. I think it takes a lot of foresight

**[2:50]** too, but I've always loved having a scoreboard because it's not up to whether somebody likes you,

**[2:57]** somebody has a good perception of what you're doing, or they feel like you're doing a good job.

**[3:00]** It's look at the scoreboard and who's on top and that's it. Exactly. And their whole business model

**[3:07]** on bringing in people who are coachable and really investing in them and teaching them a repeatable,

**[3:13]** scalable system that works is predicated on hiring very high performance, very driven

**[3:21]** folks. And it's a meritocracy that used to say, like your success is up to you and

**[3:28]** the people who are the most successful will be rewarded. And that came to life. It was a very

## 03:35 — How to actually break out of the BDR seat

**[3:35]** much promote from within culture. So you could see the dream happening all around you, which really

**[3:41]** made you believe that you could be that person that got promoted. And that became true for me,

**[3:48]** thankfully, because of all the people that invested in my learning when I was there.

**[3:54]** I know a lot of people that have a tough time breaking out of that DDR role into that account

**[4:00]** executive role. It sounds like one, make sure you're in a place that has the right culture that

**[4:06]** is looking for those opportunities to promote outside of that though. Is there anything beyond

**[4:13]** hitting your numbers and performing that you give as advice to a BDR trying to break into an AE role?

**[4:20]** Yeah. And I've had this conversation many times through the years as I've talked to BDRs or even

**[4:24]** young people who are kind of in commercial roles trying to break through the next ceiling into the

**[4:32]** more of an enterprise space. And I think it always boils down to the person that is doing the

**[4:39]** hiring needs to look across the field and go, I trust them. I want them. It's just like when

**[4:46]** you're selling a deal and you need a champion to take your deal across the line. The hiring manager

**[4:51]** who's going to hire you for the next role needs to want you above all else. So when I was in that

**[4:56]** BDR role and it was a very highly competitive Salesforce, what I started to do naturally was say,

**[5:03]** okay, how do I do the commercial role? And I started putting together, actually this was

**[5:10]** in an office. So there was a printer. So I bought a binder, I bought tabs and I started to print out

**[5:17]** the different templates and the sales process assets that we were following at the time.

**[5:24]** And I started to learn what does it mean to do POVs? What does it mean to put together pricing?

**[5:31]** What does it mean to put together a business case? And I'm a very tactile learner and it helped

**[5:39]** prepare me for that role. But I think it also gave me exposure. So I would go and I would say,

**[5:45]** hey, commercial manager, who's the best person on the team at making business cases? Or who's

**[5:50]** the best person at POVs? And I would just go over to them and try and talk to them and figure out

**[5:57]** what they were doing. And so I think it just goes back to that age old adage of you dress for the

**[6:02]** job that you want, not the job that you have, and you prepare for the job that you want, not the job

**[6:07]** that you have. So in my, you know, I was still doing great in my core job, but trying to prepare

**[6:12]** myself for the next job. And I think that made a big difference. And obviously, through that process,

**[6:18]** I made relationships so other people would vouch for me. And I got to know the hiring

**[6:23]** managers at that next role level. And that was true, like almost in every promotion that I got,

**[6:30]** that it was the hiring manager who had a relationship with who pulled me up.

**[6:35]** And I often got pulled up earlier, I think, because when, you know, you have success and sales,

**[6:43]** you're more likely to, you know, get pulled up. But that personal relationship was a really important

**[6:49]** part of each of those promotions, especially early in my career, trying to break through

**[6:54]** those barriers in a really competitive Salesforce. Yeah. And I think it's a mix of

**[7:03]** absolutely like performing your core job, starting to reach into the new job, and then who you know,

**[7:08]** and building the trust, because it is so much easier if we have somebody on the team, it's like,

**[7:13]** hey, they're already actually kind of doing that job. Okay, if we're gonna, if we're gonna open

**[7:19]** up the role, they're already doing it. So let's just give it to them. Why waste time opening up

**[7:24]** a rack, looking for other people looking outside, you know, they're already doing it. So it, because

**[7:30]** it's, I think a lot of people don't realize it's a big risk to hire someone. So any time you can

**[7:38]** mitigate that risk by somebody already proving that they can get it done, is a huge win for

**[7:42]** anybody hiring a role. I think it's so true. And I know this is a really practical tactical point,

**[7:49]** but in today's day and age, if you're young and your sales career or your early in your sales

**[7:55]** career for a BDR, I would highly recommend going somewhere where you can be in office with people

**[8:02]** so that you can make those relationships and you can learn faster. It is so hard to learn remote,

**[8:07]** what you can learn in an office comparatively. Because you can go sneak in a conference room

**[8:13]** and hide in the corner while, well, while a peer does a presentation. I mean, you just make so many

**[8:20]** more relationships. So I would highly recommend that to especially young career people, BDRs,

**[8:30]** commercial sellers who want to promote quickly, go where you can actually be in an office with people

**[8:35]** and learn faster and make those relationships. I would 100% agree. And I do feel for people who

**[8:42]** are just getting into the workforce right now, because you never know what you're doing, right,

**[8:48]** when you start. And those relationships are everything. And it's very, very difficult to

**[8:53]** build remote. So even, let's say somebody is listening and they are in a remote role,

**[9:01]** at least look for some opportunity. Like is there a customer conference that you can request to be

**[9:06]** in person at? Is there some reason to travel to the home office if there is one? Is there a

**[9:12]** trade show that you can go to like, look for any excuse to go find people in person, even if you

**[9:18]** have to travel to do it. But yes, I agree. Ideally, if you can get in a place that has an office,

**[9:24]** I think that would be huge. But the other thing there, if you're remote, is go ask for a formal

**[9:31]** mentoring relationship with an amazing seller or a new first-line leader. A lot of sellers who want

**[9:37]** to become managers should be, will be encouraged to take on those mentorship roles to prepare them

**[9:44]** to be a manager. Because back to your point on doing the job before you have the job,

**[9:50]** if you're saying a really successful enterprise seller looking to go into sales management,

**[9:54]** how great is it for you to have a roster of mentees that you've coached to prove that you're

**[9:59]** a great coach? So I think that can be a really good workaround to help accomplish some of the

**[10:07]** same as well. And then of course, just being really intentional when you're at sales kickoff,

**[10:11]** when you're at QBRs, don't just stick to the people you know, go get uncomfortable,

**[10:15]** go meet new people, go mingle at the table with all the execs, you know, they, they see that too.

**[10:24]** Absolutely. I am, I would love to hear. So you went PDR count executive, you had an amazing run

**[10:31]** in that position. And then you made a big, a big pivot, a big change into getting into enablement.

**[10:39]** How did that happen? What was drawing you to that role? What did you see where you felt you could

**[10:45]** really add a lot of value making impact? Yeah, there were the sales sort of mentor in my life

**[10:52]** that ultimately sold me on this idea. And the heart of it was, I know how hard sales can be,

**[11:00]** I know how much it changed my life, and my future children's life and probably their children's

**[11:04]** life. And how fulfilling would it be to wake up every day and think, man, if I can just have

**[11:10]** the tiniest bit of impact on someone else being able to provide for their future and for their

**[11:16]** family, and to be able to reach their dreams and goals, that is such a meaningful way to spend my

## 11:18 — What enablement actually is, and why so much of it is mediocre

**[11:22]** time. And so that that's ultimately what got me to make the leap after almost a decade of selling

**[11:28]** myself. And I just fell fell in love with it quickly. I think there's a lot of people that

**[11:37]** maybe don't understand enablement very well. I think it's a really misunderstood department

**[11:41]** in the go-to-market landscape. From your perspective, what is enablement and what are

**[11:48]** the core things that you own if you're in an enablement role? Yeah, I completely agree. I think

**[11:56]** it's very misunderstood. I think a lot of people have had mediocre or bad experiences with enablement.

**[12:02]** I think a lot of places have very mediocre enablement programs. And I think if we go back

**[12:11]** to just fundamentally, what is the job of enablement? It goes back to making sure that

**[12:18]** the go-to-market teams have the knowledge, skills, and resources to do their job.

**[12:23]** The hard part about that is that sellers, and I'm one of them, so I can say this with love,

**[12:28]** don't like to be told what to do. They've got to go on a hit. They've got a paycheck that they want

**[12:32]** to make. They don't really necessarily want someone to tell them how to do their job.

**[12:39]** And so the enablement and the programs and the systems have to be built in a way that

**[12:47]** empowers them to make the right decisions and makes it their idea ultimately. And of course,

**[12:56]** you want to hire people who are coachable. That is an essential part of making a repeatable,

**[13:03]** scalable business is getting people to operate in the same or similar way. But yeah, I would totally

**[13:13]** agree. Unfortunately, a lot of enablement programs can be moderately effective or ineffective.

**[13:23]** I've seen that too. And I think I've seen a lot of people who maybe take the approach of,

**[13:27]** oh, it's a training team. And maybe they put together the training materials and they'll

**[13:32]** go over like how we're doing med pick here or something, and then they'll record some things

**[13:35]** and send it out. I've seen that version of enablement. Then I've seen the enablement version

**[13:41]** where they are deeply ingrained in how we're selling, why we're winning, why we're losing,

**[13:48]** working across sales, marketing, product, and aligning the things that the team really needs

**[13:55]** to win, and even leaning in on some strategy of positioning and where to go.

## 14:00 — The most underrated lever: the first-line manager

**[14:00]** Are there any non-obvious things that you have done that have added a lot of value in enablement

**[14:07]** that maybe some enablement people aren't really doing or taking initiative on?

**[14:13]** Yeah, I think one of the most underrated levers, and this is more than just enablement, but it

**[14:20]** certainly should be a really foundational core component of enablement, is investing in

**[14:26]** first line managers. And for anybody who's been a seller, and you think back to that time you went

**[14:34]** to that training session, and they told you to do something, and it felt kind of like work,

**[14:39]** you're not sure you're totally bought in. What do you do? You probably talk to your peers,

**[14:44]** but ultimately you end up talking to your one-on-one and your one-on-one to your manager, and you go,

**[14:49]** "Do I really have to do that?" And in that moment, the change that the business is trying to drive

**[14:59]** lives or dies. When the first line manager is able to inspire their reps to change their behavior

**[15:11]** intrinsically and is able to, just like we do for customers, connecting their pains

**[15:15]** and their goals to our solution, you kind of end up doing the same thing with sales reps to say,

**[15:19]** "Well, look, I know you're trying to achieve X, Y, and Z. Here's how this is going to help

**[15:25]** you ultimately achieve your goals," and then you work on it together. And so I think the first line

**[15:31]** sales manager is the hardest job in SaaS, in my opinion, and is one of the most under-invested

**[15:43]** areas. They just deserve all the love and all the enablement and all the support that they can get.

**[15:53]** I think that makes a ton of sense, especially the way you framed it. Your enablement is going to

**[15:57]** live or die with that front line manager, and I do think a lot of enablement teams, and just

**[16:01]** companies in general, they focus on like, "Okay, how do we need to get the salesperson trained,

**[16:07]** prepared? What materials do they need?" And really, really focusing a lot of that love and attention

**[16:12]** on that level of the organization, and then pretty much saying, "Managers, you figured out. That's why

**[16:17]** you made you a manager, right? You just do it on your own. I didn't know you needed help anymore,

**[16:23]** but what are some of the ways that you have enabled frontline managers or given them

**[16:31]** the attention they deserve? What does that look like when you're doing it well?"

**[16:35]** Yeah. I think one, it starts from the top down and it trickles at every level, right? So when

**[16:40]** you have a CRO who's truly passionate and truly invested from the top down in investing in the

**[16:47]** leaders below them, it models that behavior for the entire sales leadership team. So that practically

**[16:54]** can look like the way the CRO talks about, talks to, treats their next level of leaders and all the

**[17:04]** leaders in their org. That can look like how they set expectations in how their leaders treat their

**[17:13]** people. So it's almost like when your kids or your parenting, your kids will do what they see

**[17:23]** more than they will do what they're told. So I think that is an essential part of

**[17:29]** creating that type of culture and that kind of atmosphere is they need to see it demonstrated

**[17:33]** from the top down. And then I think on a practical level, it takes time and money. You pull them out

**[17:42]** of the field, which can feel very counterintuitive, especially to execs who maybe don't quite

**[17:50]** understand the importance or the impact of it. You have to get them away from people. Otherwise,

**[17:56]** they will not take the time to invest and develop their own skills, or they'll be leaving their

**[18:03]** training session to go on to a critical deal call. And they've got to realize, you're a great

**[18:10]** manager if your team can operate well without you. Your job is almost to exist to replace yourself

**[18:17]** and to build up the next generation of leaders. And so one of the things I've been lucky enough

**[18:24]** to experience in my life a couple of times are those leadership trainings. I've worked for some

**[18:30]** amazing CROs before. Some of my favorite career experiences have been those leadership trainings.

**[18:38]** Just to provide a specific example, I remember there was, it was a two or three-day period.

**[18:44]** We rented out a ballroom, and it was just for the leaders. And we spent two or three days

## 18:46 — The three R's: recruit, retain, revenue

**[18:51]** on two of the three R's. Now, have you heard of the three R's?

**[18:57]** I would love if you can share.

**[18:59]** Yeah, it's a fairly popular leadership framework, but just for anybody who hasn't heard it, it's

**[19:04]** recruit, retain, and revenue. So what that means is you recruit great people who want to learn

**[19:10]** and become better. You retain them by developing them, developing their skill set, helping them

**[19:15]** progress in their career. And then when it comes to revenue, obviously, your job as a sales leader

**[19:19]** ultimately is to bring revenue across the line. So you're in the boat with your team,

**[19:25]** being a value add, actually helping them close deals. In that, I think it was a two to three-day

**[19:31]** training. We actually really only focused on two of the three R's. That's how maniacal we were,

**[19:38]** and how detailed and how in-depth we were. And now, it seems like a simple concept,

**[19:45]** but there is so much skill when it comes to being a great leader. And so I feel really

**[19:52]** fortunate that I've gotten to work for some great CROs who, one, understood the importance and the

**[19:58]** power of investing in the sales leaders, especially the first-line managers. And we're willing to take

**[20:04]** the time and the money and take people out of the field to truly invest in them and their career

**[20:11]** growth. And the fun part about all this is it actually does change people's lives. It absolutely

**[20:16]** does. I know I've been the beneficiary of some fantastic leaders that have invested in me, given

**[20:22]** me a shot. And it has fundamentally changed my life, my career, the opportunities I have for my

**[20:29]** family. It won 100%. And it's so fulfilling when you get to do that for somebody else too.

**[20:38]** Give somebody a chance, coach them up, train them up, and then you see them leading.

**[20:42]** I'm curious, in the ballroom, what were the two R's that the team paid special attention to?

**[20:49]** It was recruiting and retaining. And they used to say, and this might seem counterintuitive,

**[20:53]** because especially for a first-time manager, someone's natural instinct is, "I was a great rep.

**[21:00]** I can make you a great rep." But what ends up happening is they get so involved in the deal,

**[21:04]** so then they kind of, what we have turned before, are super-repping, where they almost step in and

**[21:09]** do the job for the rep. And the rep isn't learned that way, but it's a natural human

**[21:16]** instinct to try and take over, because they know what to do to get the deal done. Now,

**[21:22]** the saying goes, "If you recruit great people and you develop them, revenue takes care of itself."

**[21:30]** So there is a lot to learn still on how do you help someone execute revenue without just doing

**[21:36]** the job for them, so they learn well along the way. That all gets much easier if you've recruited

**[21:43]** someone who's intelligent with great character and hungry for coaching, and you retain them by

**[21:53]** developing them and helping them learn and feel like they're bettering themselves in their career

## 21:55 — Hiring sellers: the ICE framework

**[21:59]** every day. In sales, I do feel like it's a bit of a tricky role to recruit for. What are some

**[22:08]** principles that people should be looking out for? Because I see people probably misfire on hiring

**[22:14]** this role more than any other role in the organization. Yeah, it's really hard. I don't

**[22:21]** think there are any silver bullets. There's a fairly well-known popular hiring framework called

**[22:27]** ICE, which is intelligence, character, credibility, and experience. And again, it can be sort of a

**[22:34]** natural human nature to think, "I want to hire someone who has the most experience." Well,

**[22:40]** if you ever ask a salesperson if they're great, their answer is always that they're the best.

**[22:48]** What? No way. Yeah, yeah. And so when you hire for experience, which again is natural human

**[22:59]** nature to think, "Well, if they've done it before, they'll come here and they'll be able to do it

**[23:02]** again." But ultimately, you just don't know what you're going to get because every salesperson is

**[23:07]** going to say that they're the best. And so I think of those criteria, the focus really is

**[23:15]** intelligence and more than intelligence, character, and credibility. And the really tricky hard part

**[23:23]** about interviewing is you can't just ask someone, "Tell me about a time when you were coachable."

**[23:32]** Or, "Tell me about a time when you showed that you had great character." Because they'll

**[23:36]** just tell you what you want to hear. You almost have to manufacture a situation that tests for

**[23:44]** coachability or for character. And I can give you a funny example. The worst interview I've ever had

**[23:51]** in my life was with that same mentor who I still talk to today and I love and respect so much and

**[23:59]** has changed my life in many ways. But I went to go work directly for him in my first enablement role.

**[24:06]** I would say he's very masterful at this type of interviewing. I remember he at some point in the

**[24:16]** interview was kind of like, "How do you think this is going?" And he had purposely sort of

**[24:22]** thrown off the interview and put me in a situation where I should be feeling like maybe this isn't

**[24:29]** going as good as I thought it was. It was very reasonable for me to go into that interview

**[24:34]** thinking, "I've got it. It's a slam dunk." I was a very successful rep where we both worked together

**[24:40]** at Appianemics before. It would have been reasonable for me to just come in with a chip on my

**[24:45]** shoulder and think, "I got this. You need me. I don't need you." And so I really appreciate that

**[24:52]** he sort of manufactured that system, I think, just to see how I would react. Do I get defensive

**[25:01]** or do I stop and look for coaching and stay curious and stay humble? And I remember

**[25:13]** leaving that interview, writing him an email, kind of like, "Here's what I learned. Here's

**[25:20]** what I think I would do differently next time." And I think, and this is not at all to suit my

**[25:26]** own form, it was just seared into my brain because it was so shocking and uncomfortable for me

**[25:32]** because I would say it took a total turn from what I was expecting. But I think that's an

**[25:41]** interesting example of... How did you respond? How did you respond when he asked you that?

**[25:47]** I've never been asked that in an interview, ever. Yeah. Well, I could feel that from his energy and

**[25:57]** his body language that it wasn't going as well as I wanted it to go. So I just started, I was just

**[26:04]** very vulnerable and honest, which is hard to do when you're interviewing for a job because again,

**[26:09]** the human nature is to say, "I'm great," and to present the best version of yourself because you're

**[26:15]** trying to sell yourself into the role. But what I look for when I'm interviewing people and what I

**[26:22]** think he was looking for in that moment is, "I know you're great, otherwise I wouldn't be at this

**[26:28]** point with you, but I want to make sure that you're still humble and you're curious and you're

**[26:34]** coachable and you're willing to learn because we're going to do some hard things together."

**[26:41]** SAS is a hard job. This is a hard way to make a living. So you really need people who

**[26:47]** are in the boat with you, who are willing to learn, who are humble, who can work through conflict

**[26:53]** and do hard things. And so, yeah, I look for that myself. In fact, one of the best hires I

**[27:00]** made on my enablement team when I was hiring enablement people, I vividly remember

**[27:07]** sort of challenging her in a panel. And her instinct was similar. She just stopped and she

**[27:15]** said, "Yeah," and asked some questions about what we were pushing her on. And instead of getting

**[27:22]** defensive, she just stopped and she truly tried to listen and truly tried to learn. And to this day,

**[27:31]** she's one of the, I think, highest performing people I've ever had a privilege of personally

**[27:37]** hiring on a team of mine and very, very successful in her career too.

**[27:47]** Do you have any other ways to kind of inspect those two things during an interview process?

**[27:53]** I really love that one. I might be stealing that one. Any other way to test those things

**[28:00]** about their character? Yeah, I hope that other people, once this podcast comes out, chime in

**[28:09]** with their ideas on how to do this because I don't have all the answers myself. But some other things

**[28:15]** that come to mind when it comes to trying to understand character and coachability are

**[28:21]** understanding what people's hobbies are. What do they do outside of work? You're A players who are

**[28:27]** high performers in life. Typically are high performers outside of work too. They have

**[28:33]** often unique and interesting hobbies. They have high achievements. I'm thinking back to

**[28:43]** one of the other gals I worked with. She was a peer on an enablement team that I was a part of.

**[28:49]** She was an award-winning mortician. Her father. Yes, that's a real story. She's great. And her

**[28:58]** father was, you know, owned a mortuary and was a mortician. And she thought she wanted to do that.

**[29:04]** But it just goes to show you there's that pattern of high performance and everything that you do.

**[29:09]** I didn't know they handed out awards for that. I didn't know where where's the

**[29:12]** conference and who's judging this? Yeah, it's news to me as well. But when she said that,

**[29:17]** I thought I'm not surprised because it's like everything she does, she puts her heart and soul

**[29:22]** into. She's a very high performer. So I think that's one way is what are your hobbies and

**[29:28]** interests and how do you spend your time outside of work? And are they doing hard things? Are they,

**[29:34]** you know, other examples I remember from interviews and from great, great people have turned out to be

**[29:40]** great are things like sports or marathons, you know, like they volunteer to put themselves in

**[29:48]** uncomfortable hard situations or they have causes that are near and dear to their heart and they

**[29:53]** raise money for, you know, you know, start a charity, you know, start a charity or something

**[30:01]** like that. So I think I think that can be that can be kind of interesting. I want to know that

**[30:06]** you have something else going on other than other than work. No, I think that's really helpful just

**[30:12]** to get an understanding. Hey, what's the full body of work of this person and just unique ways to get

**[30:20]** because when you're hiring salespeople, usually they're they're good at selling themselves. So

**[30:25]** telling you what you want to hear and knowing what the right answer is. So I think some of these

**[30:29]** little like, Hey, let's throw a curveball here or there or kind of get off the typical interview

**[30:36]** script are really, really helpful to help understand like, Hey, is this person going to

**[30:40]** be a good fit here? Are they going to put in the work in the effort? Or were they just

**[30:45]** moving between SAS jobs and bagging their ramp time and moving on to the next one?

**[30:51]** Yeah, there's probably one more I'd add to that list that just came to mind too is

**[30:55]** that remind me based on something that you said is get them out of the office. It goes back to

**[31:01]** the whole beer test. Like if especially if you have a choice between a couple people,

**[31:07]** this was advice given to me, but pick the person who you'd want to go have a beer with.

**[31:15]** And I think I think just getting someone out of the office is really helpful to just let their

**[31:21]** you know, hopefully let their guard down and see who they really are because you need to get to

**[31:24]** know them as a person. And I'll give you one more random one as these keep coming to mind. I had an

**[31:31]** old stereo talk about how when he's in an interview, he will ask people about their friendships and

**[31:43]** what he's looking for are people who have had same or similar friends from for a long time.

**[31:50]** And he sees that as a sign of character of, you know, I think about my husband, he still has a

**[31:56]** guy's weekend with his friends from elementary school. They're in their mid 40s now. And every

**[32:04]** single year, they make a point to get together and they play golden eye and they go play sports and

**[32:09]** play pickleball and they play poker, you know, and they just have a ball and they've been friends

**[32:14]** since elementary and middle school and now they're all, you know, mid 40s. So I think that's a good

**[32:22]** sign of character too is if you kind of kept some of those same friendships. And then I'll throw

**[32:27]** you I'll throw one more at you and you can edit these however you want to. One more would be

**[32:34]** a COO I interviewed with. And I think this is fairly popular too, but understanding someone's

**[32:42]** why and he, but he specifically had a unique take on it, which was what happened to you when you were

**[32:49]** earlier in life that made you who you are today. And he said, oftentimes there's something that

**[32:56]** happened often when you're a teenager or you're a child, whether it's your parents got divorced or

**[33:04]** they lost, you know, your parent lost their job or you had to move and leave all your friends

**[33:13]** behind. Like there are these really informative experiences that happen in your childhood and

**[33:18]** adolescence that can really shape who you are and your motivations as an adult. And I thought that

**[33:23]** was a really, really unique take. And he said, a really reliable source for him and hiring great

**[33:29]** people is understanding that. And then I'll throw one more. This is especially random at you. Yes,

**[33:35]** one of my, one of my favorite sales leader leaders. And I have, I have a couple, but Josh Reiner,

**[33:40]** who's now the CRO at tactile. I remember interviewing with him. He's the, he's the one

**[33:46]** who gave me kind of my first big job that was out in the field. And the reason I moved from Dallas

**[33:50]** to Kansas city. And I remember him telling me that one of his tall tell signs when he's interviewing

**[33:56]** reps is he will try to take a car ride with them in their car when they drive. And he said,

**[34:02]** he has never hired a bad rep who when they're driving will switch lanes to just get a little

**[34:11]** further ahead. So, you know, when you're, you know, when you're driving and you know, there's

**[34:16]** naturally those types of people who are willing to stay in the long line in the left hand lane,

**[34:21]** even though the right lane is totally clear. And then you have people who can not physically

**[34:26]** stand it. I'm that way. I can't, I can't handle it. I can't stay in the long line. If I can get,

**[34:33]** if I get ahead by going to the right lane to pass people, I will. And so I thought that was such a

**[34:38]** funny, weird, such a funny, weird example, but he said it's never let them down. So there's a,

**[34:44]** there's a bunch of random, random examples for you. No, I think those are great because it has

**[34:49]** to be the non-obvious stuff that they're not preparing for. Nobody was thinking that they

**[34:55]** would have been evaluated based on how they switch lanes or not. And I was wondering,

**[35:01]** did he mention anything about the cleanliness of the car? I know that's one that I've heard before.

**[35:06]** Maybe it doesn't matter in sales. You can have a messy car and still hit your quota. I don't know.

**[35:11]** I don't remember him mentioning that. I do think there's some degree of a reflection of character.

**[35:19]** With how clean, how clean your car is now. I would say that I have toddlers, my car is not that,

**[35:25]** not that clean, but you're not going to see the front seats clean though. That's the front seats

**[35:30]** are clean. There's toys in the back. It's very obvious that I have children. Yeah, but there's

**[35:34]** not old food and there's not, you know, it's not gross. So I, I, I believe he did not mention that,

**[35:41]** but I do think that's an interesting sign of a character and also a little easier to orchestrate

**[35:47]** when you're leaving an interview is like walking someone to their car and getting a peek in it

**[35:51]** versus actually finding yourself writing somewhere with them. But I think that's a good one too.

**[35:58]** No, those are great. Those are great. And I think a lot of people,

**[36:01]** again, they have a tough time interviewing for this role and knowing should I make a decision

**[36:07]** or not? But it's because they're typically staying at the surface level that anybody's going to be

**[36:12]** prepared for and probably give you an answer that you want to hear for. So some of these non-obvious

**[36:16]** things are really helpful. I'm, I'm wondering moving to the retention side. I also, as hard

**[36:24]** it is to recruit a good salesperson, I think it's even harder to retain a good salesperson. And

**[36:31]** there are so many factors that go into that. Is the product good? Is there growth? Do they

**[36:37]** have a good territory? Do they have a team around them? Oh my goodness. To keep the good ones,

**[36:42]** because people will be reaching out to them. They can move on at any point in time. What

**[36:49]** recommendations do you have to maximize retainment of your best reps?

**[36:55]** I actually think it's pretty simple. If they are making money and they feel like they're being

**[37:01]** developed and they're learning and they're growing in their career, they will stay. I think it's that

**[37:08]** simple. Are there certain major mistakes that you think people make that really compromise any of

**[37:13]** those? I mean, I think a lot of it goes back to that relationship between the rep and their first

## 37:14 — The mistake that kills it: one-on-ones that become deal reviews

**[37:22]** line manager. A really, really common mistake is letting one-on-ones turn into deal reviews.

**[37:30]** If our one-on-ones are just a never-ending deal review, I might be learning a little bit,

**[37:41]** but you're not helping me think like a business person or to learn how to be a critical thinker

**[37:47]** and owner of my own franchise. If you think back to those leadership trainings I was talking about

**[37:54]** is one of the things we would spend a lot of time on is how do you renovate one-on-one and

**[38:02]** how much prep that takes. At First Line Manager, we used to say you spend an hour for each rep on

**[38:09]** your team on a Friday preparing for a one-on-one. We used to describe it as the most important

**[38:15]** meeting of the whole week. If you think about it, it makes sense because if you can empower

**[38:20]** someone to be more effective, if you are empowering them to become a better seller and improve in

**[38:28]** their career and they can really see how that's going to help them make more money and reach their

**[38:35]** goals, then the rest of the week is going to be more productive and you can sort of scale yourself

**[38:42]** in that way. It goes back to the whole, you know, sharpen your axe before you cut down a forest,

**[38:46]** but I think so many people and again it's just human nature. They don't prepare for one-on-ones,

**[38:53]** they show up reactively, they don't truly focus on understanding their sales reps

**[39:02]** wise and what motivates them in order to underpin those development conversations in a really

**[39:08]** positive, effective manner and then it's just so easy to let one-on-ones become just elongated

**[39:17]** deal reviews and I think you got to step back and think, okay, if I'm my sales rep and I'm leading

**[39:23]** that one-on-one, how do I feel? Am I empowered? Am I belittled? Am I annoyed? Did that make a

**[39:30]** difference in their life? You know, so we'd spend a lot of time about on how to do a great one-on-one,

**[39:36]** how to prepare for a great one-on-one and so much of the development starts in those one-on-one

**[39:43]** relationships. How do you have a great one-on-one? In a lot of leadership trainings that I went to,

**[39:50]** we followed a similar formula and it was one, understanding their data, helping them understand

**[40:00]** their data and that is starts with two major sections which is pipeline generation and visible

**[40:10]** opportunities or qualified opportunities is basically just what are the opportunities that

**[40:14]** you have in your pipe and all of that is underpinned by a concept of leading indicators

**[40:22]** which I hope every organization adopts if they don't already. Are you familiar with the leading

**[40:29]** indicator concept? I'm familiar with leading indicators unless there's something particular

**[40:35]** about how it relates to one-on-ones. Not necessarily, I guess just maybe just for anybody who's listening,

**[40:43]** leading indicators as a concept will be pretty simple which is here are the, you know, if you're

## 40:47 — Leading indicators: making quota inevitable

**[40:50]** achieving these metrics ultimately over time we know that by achieving these metrics you are likely

**[40:56]** to achieve your ultimate goal. So some examples of leading indicators that we've had in the past in

**[41:01]** a sales capacity are, you know, 10 new business meetings a quarter, two POVs which is proof of

**[41:11]** values or like technical validations, one business value assessment and then two deals in commit of a

**[41:20]** significant size and two deals in upside of a significant size and if you are hitting each of

**[41:28]** those leading indicators quarter over quarter over quarter that ensures you have enough new pipeline

**[41:34]** and that ensures you have enough pipeline qualified opportunities that are progressing

**[41:40]** of a large enough size to help you meet your goal and when I was a sales rep at AppDynamics

**[41:48]** this was a really really really important big concept and they modeled our leading indicators

**[41:53]** off of hitting, you know, if you basically if you hit these quarter over quarter over quarter

**[41:58]** you won't just hit your goal you'll get to 150 or 200 percent of your goal because those at times

**[42:04]** were hard to hit. Now here's where the connection is between a leading indicator and a great one-on-one.

**[42:09]** Now like I talked about before as a sales rep part of being developed by my first-line manager

**[42:17]** is understanding how to think like a business person and an owner of my franchise.

**[42:22]** So rather than just thinking deal the deal or doing deal reviews all the time I have leaders

**[42:29]** who spent time thinking about my business and helped model that thinking for me to say hey

**[42:35]** how is your pipeline generation? I noticed XYZ insights in how your how many discoveries you

**[42:43]** need to do before you can book an MBM or how many MBMs convert to a qualified opportunity.

**[42:48]** Hey you're a little behind on this leading indicator let's figure out why let's get a plan

**[42:53]** together. Okay if we look at your deals let's actually look into you know your little light

**[43:02]** on VVAs or POVs let's figure out why or your POVs are converting like crazy but yet you don't have

**[43:09]** enough and commit everything's sitting in upside let's dig into why. So that leading indicator

**[43:15]** concept and being an owner of your franchise helps that one-on-one become more valuable and more

**[43:24]** developmental when your leader can model for you how to think strategically about your business.

**[43:32]** I think that makes a ton of sense and again going away from hey we're just doing a deal review

**[43:38]** over and over and over and over again but like helping you understand how to coach yourself

**[43:42]** how can I operate a little bit differently not just to meet the goal but there's nobody who

**[43:48]** gets in sales who's not thinking about their paycheck so how do we crush your goal and really

**[43:54]** get you in a position to be successful here. I think that applies that's why I love sales

**[44:02]** because they're just tangible numbers to it but I do think that concept still applies to other roles

**[44:09]** too. For sure and if you think about the whole business model and again this is something that

**[44:16]** I got to live as a sales rep at Dynamics so that was a very formative time but

**[44:27]** the whole concept builds on itself if I'm a sales rep who got to be a part of this

**[44:32]** system and and saw a leader who invested in me and really helped me be better you know I took

**[44:39]** the enablement path but you know probably the majority of people want to go be be sales leaders

**[44:47]** but what have you then modeled for them you have modeled world-class sales leadership

**[44:52]** so now they get promoted and they're a better leader because they've experienced better

**[44:57]** leadership and they're a much better first-line leader because they have the programs and the

**[45:02]** systems and the willingness from the tops down to continue to coach and develop them as sales

**[45:06]** leaders to be better and better better sales leaders and then if you think about everyone

**[45:12]** else in the whole culture in the org when you see people's careers progress you believe and and you

**[45:19]** want to stay somewhere that has that culture and and the you know you know the grass isn't greener

**[45:26]** and and because you see the success of others and the career progression of others happening

**[45:32]** you believe hey this is the right place and and that's going to happen for me too

**[45:39]** and when you can do that it's such an amazing opportunity to pass that baton down I am

## 45:47 — Standing up an enablement function from scratch

**[45:47]** last thing I'm hoping we can cover that I think would be really helpful for anybody who's in an

**[45:53]** enablement role in a sales management role operationally how do you like to set up your

**[46:01]** enablement department what tools are you using what processes are you following are there any

**[46:07]** rhythms that you're running that keep you aligned with the sales organization what does it look

**[46:14]** like operationally to run enablement yeah I think there's probably a couple of founding

**[46:24]** principles or elements I think obviously as the company scales and the size of the company

**[46:30]** changes it it morphs a little bit I think it starts with being a really tight-knit team between

**[46:39]** the especially the head of sales enablement and rev ops and coming together looking at the data

**[46:49]** and starting to identify where in our business model are things broken and we're going to

**[46:57]** identify those problems and we're going to solve them together because they're all intertwined

**[47:03]** so in my career I've done a lot of coming in with a new CRO who's who's been hired to scale a

**[47:10]** company a lot of times it was hey come be our CRO we've got great product market set we've got

**[47:20]** great growth but we need to scale to get to that IPO point and so they're they're coming in with

**[47:26]** that sort of playbook formula of a repeatable scalable business motion and you can't flip a

**[47:34]** switch and make that change overnight so there's a lot more to build that culture and that vision

**[47:44]** and it takes some time it takes a lot more than enablement but I would say fundamentally a good

**[47:50]** place to start is what are our you know kind of what's my conversion funnel of my business

**[47:58]** therefore where are the core problems that we need to move therefore across revenue sales

**[48:04]** leadership and enablement we're all on the same page and we're focused on moving a metric

**[48:12]** you know kind of or like one or two metrics at a time

**[48:16]** until you slowly create that system and that culture around you

**[48:23]** now if you want to get a little more tactical on some of those like universal elements I would say

**[48:29]** obviously you need a repeatable sales process that captures data in the right way so that way

**[48:37]** you're able to identify problems more smartly and that again also has to do with revops and your

**[48:43]** sales leader I would say practical things in the enablement world and anybody in enablement

**[48:51]** I don't you know none of this is going to be revolutionary but you want to have you know the

**[48:57]** training experiences and the and the tools that create those high quality training experiences

**[49:04]** you want to make it easy for the sales perhaps and the sales leaders to do the right best thing

**[49:10]** so practically speaking it's having the right content management systems and having helpful

**[49:18]** programming so there's a difference between hey I have kind of like a weekly or monthly

**[49:25]** updates call on sort of lightish change management maybe a pricing quick quick pricing change it's

**[49:33]** not too difficult a system change a tool change things like that versus your larger programs

**[49:40]** so we used to have as part of our rhythm here's an example our regular enablement

**[49:47]** kind of update call but then quarterly we would always have sometimes you know one or two bigger

**[49:54]** programs and we would do a series and there was always you know a we were trying to drive

**[50:02]** behavior change to solve a problem that was in our business and really change change behavior so

**[50:09]** an example one of those was rolling out the concept of a three wise business case

**[50:14]** or you know focusing on discovery to try and move our you know our conversion funnel in the

**[50:22]** right direction for early stage cycles things like that so I'm throwing some random stuff at you

**[50:29]** that's a very very weighty question we could talk for hours about that no I'm sure I think

**[50:37]** I think there's some just foundations and and I think you threw out a lot of them that are

**[50:43]** really helpful that I think some enablement teams just need maybe to know like hey this

**[50:49]** is under my purview this is something I should be doing and one I always just like asking are there

**[50:53]** any tools that you're using that you're a big fan of in the enablement space right now I also

**[50:58]** know this is a very big like build versus buy moment for a lot of people so are there tools

**[51:05]** that you're choosing to build on your own yeah yeah we there man the world has changed so rapidly

**[51:13]** in the last 12 months when it comes to GTM tooling one of my favorites right now is lovable now for

## 51:18 — She vibe coded her entire enablement stack

**[51:20]** context I'm in a series B very freshly series B startup with a you know a small team we have

**[51:29]** under a dozen sellers and instead of you know I was the first enablement hire here

**[51:35]** and instead of coming in and buying a typical tech stack which would be something like you

**[51:40]** know an LMS a CMS some BI tools to visualize data some tools like you know people like back story

**[51:48]** to scrape calendars and pick up data and there's so many tools out now that the amount of spam

**[51:56]** that I get for GTM tools is out of this world now instead of spending six to twelve months

**[52:06]** and five different procurement cycles and hundreds of thousands of dollars

**[52:11]** I just vibe coded a simple LMS and CMS and reporting stack I've now also integrated

**[52:21]** we call it the GTM machine and I own it which means I can change the code anytime I love

**[52:28]** having that power I don't have time to wait on answers for someone I don't want to have to go

**[52:34]** to IT or to other teams to wait on answers for anything and so the flexibility that has come from

**[52:42]** vibe coding our core stack has just been immense and it's been it's been really really fun so

**[52:50]** right right now I'm using lovable for that but we do I built my I built our forecasting tool

**[52:55]** I built all the reporting we just built a lead routing mechanism everything's connected to

**[52:59]** Salesforce you know all the other tools that we use I'm building right now a comp intel battlecard

**[53:10]** chatbot that's connected to slack that pulls competitive mentions and auto updates

**[53:18]** you know from real conversations our kill points and our perspectives and our experiences that

**[53:22]** we're hearing from customers to empower reps to have better comp intel responses

**[53:27]** I mean there's there's so many cool things that you can vibe code now

**[53:31]** I know it really is a completely different world like I started lean scale in 2021 revops essentially

**[53:38]** meant sales force outreach gong if you were very very progressive but now it's it's a lot of the

## 53:41 — Why the data model became the real work

**[53:48]** focus has turned into like how can we create a data model to where ally can build whatever

**[53:55]** tool she wants on top of it so how do we make sure the transcripts are stored in the right way

**[54:00]** the account information is connected in the right way you have semantic layer that can

**[54:05]** help the AI understand what everything means context graph to help make sure all the points

**[54:10]** are connected and everything's connected in the right way that has become probably the biggest

**[54:15]** focus of the work to unlock all of those tools you're talking about where before it was more like

**[54:23]** hey the role is let's go find the tools and then we'll go implement them now it's let's get the

**[54:29]** data model airtight and then let's just go get building yeah I would emphasize that 100 times

**[54:34]** over my experience over the last nine months has been and I think you'll see this in all over

**[54:42]** LinkedIn and the internet too but the vibe coding you do have to be really careful with it can be

**[54:46]** buggy it can hallucinate it can do weird things so I have I have spent and continue to keep an

**[54:54]** eye on you know sort of babysitting things one thing that we're working on like you said is

**[55:03]** my revop scale is actually building kind of that in between layer you're talking about

**[55:07]** because part of the way that you de-risk a vibe coded app is by having that data layer in between

**[55:14]** so my vibe coded app doesn't need to do the really complex logic that I that I'm trying to get it to

**[55:19]** do because I'm trying to report on specific behavior or activity or metric results when you take

**[55:26]** the the complex reasoning out of the vibe coded app and put it into something that's really solid

**[55:31]** like I think we're gonna do you know like sales like sales like it basically becomes sales like

**[55:38]** because it's Salesforce to Snowflake to then whatever you want to attach on the other side

**[55:43]** that's essentially what they've turned themselves into is just a massive data warehouse

**[55:47]** that everybody just already has in their company but people aren't even logging into Salesforce

**[55:51]** anywhere so it's essentially Salesflake I love that it is so so yeah so that's our that's kind

**[55:57]** of our next iteration is that data layer and there will be more more to it than than just that

**[56:04]** you know I want to be careful about what I what I share but but I completely agree with with with

**[56:11]** what you're saying the amazing part about vibe coding apps is the usability and the UI and the

**[56:17]** flexibility and that you know the the freedom and the power that it gives me but you do have to be

**[56:21]** so so so careful especially if you think about you know the stuff that we're collecting and

**[56:28]** reporting on in there will be a part of board presentations that you know there's a zero

**[56:33]** tolerance for error so we're doing some cool things in that data layer like you said to

**[56:37]** tighten up some of those vibe codey issues that those apps tend to have yeah no and there's

**[56:46]** definitely a point where it's like hey we need a level of governance and you know security

**[56:52]** and when all the boring stuff starts becoming important that's when you should just go buy

**[56:56]** something but if it's a fun UI layer workflow then I think I have a good time with those

**[57:02]** yeah I will say though that I never want to buy another SCORM tool ever

**[57:06]** for all my enablement people that are listening I bet they're cheering or giggling to themselves

**[57:11]** we used to pay a lot of money for all the people on my team who are building coursework to have a

**[57:18]** SCORM tool for anybody who doesn't know that's a really popular file type that typically your

**[57:24]** learning management systems will use so you use your SCORM tool to create the course you upload

**[57:29]** the course to your LMS like a mind tickle or something like that it takes hours days of course

**[57:39]** building coursework is takes so much longer than than than most people realize in the LMS I'm able

**[57:46]** to vibe code the courses and it's so much faster than than using these old old traditional SCORM

**[57:55]** tools and it is just pennies on the dollar so that that's one thing that I think um you know

**[58:02]** they might SCORM tools might be dead no don't don't don't come at me on that there's probably

**[58:07]** other people who would disagree but but I'm interested some some of these tools deserve to

**[58:12]** die so I'm not I'm not uh I'm not sad about it anything that you think is gonna be a trend in

**[58:20]** the future of enablement any foundations you think will carry along no matter what AI happens to

**[58:26]** become where do you think this is all going more and more people are going to need to experience

**[58:35]** the learning and be empowered to come to the right conclusions rather than you know in the

**[58:44]** past it was it was pretty simple it was just simpler times were simpler you know you had

## 58:51 — Where enablement goes next

**[58:53]** a template for your business case that's all you had well now people are it's so easy to make

**[58:59]** templates all the time I think one of the challenges that we're going to have as an

**[59:06]** as an enablement team is how do you sort of rein in and still create consistency that creates

**[59:12]** a repeatable business model when it's very easy now to go rogue and go build your own resources

**[59:19]** and build your own build you know almost build your own sales culture and sales sales methodology

**[59:28]** and and so I think in large companies that's going to it's going to get harder and harder

**[59:33]** to do that but I also think the way that people experience tools and want to learn and want to

**[59:40]** operate has changed immensely gone are the days of here's a acronym for how you write

**[59:49]** a a really good email to an executive prospect they don't want that they want a tool that does

**[59:57]** it for them so I think I think there's going to be some fundamental questions of how how do

**[1:00:06]** you enable them to be effective and where do you start to do work for them and then at what point

**[1:00:12]** is that too much that you've done and you've taken away all the thinking so you know I'm

**[1:00:18]** super eager to super eager to see but people's expectations are certainly changing on how they

**[1:00:24]** learn what they learn the tools that they use what's done for them and what they have to do

**[1:00:29]** and I think a lot of that is good and I think some of that comes with some inherent challenges

**[1:00:33]** that are going to be tricky to figure out I agree well I think with everything else in GTM

**[1:00:41]** six months 12 months from now we probably won't even recognize half the stuff we do

**[1:00:46]** and I think it's changing so fast and it's just really important to be to be up to date but

**[1:00:50]** I really appreciate everything you shared on the podcast today I think so many people

**[1:00:55]** have a real tough time understanding exactly what an element does and I appreciate the depth that

**[1:01:00]** you've taken the function and how you've helped the companies that you've helped I'm also a big

## 1:01:01 — Wrap

**[1:01:05]** fan of the 3R system that you went through especially focused on recruitment and retainment

**[1:01:10]** and exactly what to do with those I am stealing half of those interview questions and techniques

**[1:01:15]** I don't know if I'll be able to sneak into somebody's car but I'm gonna do my best and also

**[1:01:21]** I really appreciate the formula for a one-on-one and how to manage and bring up the next generation

**[1:01:28]** of leaders so Ali I appreciate you being on the podcast everything you shared and I can't wait

**[1:01:34]** to see what you do next in your career thanks it's been it's been a pleasure to be here I really

**[1:01:40]** appreciate you having me and for anybody who's listening please don't be shy reach out tell me

**[1:01:44]** what you think tell me where I got it wrong tell me tell me your perspective on things I'd love to

**[1:01:49]** you know meet everybody and so don't be shy please look me up on LinkedIn send me a message and

**[1:01:55]** Anthony it's just been it's been a pleasure working with you think

**[1:01:58]** real highly of you and your team and excited for everything that you're doing too